Weighted impact weapons: Short handle vs long handle

The only thing I can think of is the ability to stand clear of the response coming your way from anyone on the receiving end...

I carried both a blackjack and a sap (one or the other) all those years ago as a young cop in 1974- 1976... I quit carrying either of them when I learned the hard way that all striking a really determined adversary did for me - was to fire them up worse than they already were. Maybe it was me being reluctant to go full force (and risk serious injury or death as a result)... but I long ago gave up striking implements on the street - preferring to run an opponent head first into something hard and very unforgiving... instead.

lemaymiami said:

The only thing I can think of is the ability to stand clear of the response coming your way from anyone on the receiving end...

I carried both a blackjack and a sap (one or the other) all those years ago as a young cop in 1974- 1976... I quit carrying either of them when I learned the hard way that all striking a really determined adversary did for me - was to fire them up worse than they already were. Maybe it was me being reluctant to go full force (and risk serious injury or death as a result)... but I long ago gave up striking implements on the street - preferring to run an opponent head first into something hard and very unforgiving... instead.

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I am kind of wondering about this. I did my state's equivalent of the police academy but have no police experience, but the basic baton training emphasized pain compliance even though the instructors did give us some side caution not to expect too much compliance just because you smacked somebody in the thigh with a Monadnock. But with a heavy jack or sap, and no constraint by training or policy to target major muscle groups for pain compliance, I would be more inclined to aim for the forearm, hand, collarbone, jaw, or temple, and I suspect that's a much more effective use of the tool.

I'm gonna stay out of this for the most part, since I have no formal training like many of you do. I am posting as much to follow the thread as to share my thoughts.
I do, however, carry a 16" length of old ⅜" log chain and lock in the door pockets of my vehicles. IMHO when you swing that with max force and hit an aggressor, it will likely have the desired effect whether it is on the shoulder or above the ear hole. Those chains are in two pickups and a jeep. The semis have ball peen hammers inside the doors for checking those 18 tires.....and I do have undeniable experience swinging one of those over an anvil.

lemaymiami said:

The only thing I can think of is the ability to stand clear of the response coming your way from anyone on the receiving end...

I carried both a blackjack and a sap (one or the other) all those years ago as a young cop in 1974- 1976... I quit carrying either of them when I learned the hard way that all striking a really determined adversary did for me - was to fire them up worse than they already were. Maybe it was me being reluctant to go full force (and risk serious injury or death as a result)... but I long ago gave up striking implements on the street - preferring to run an opponent head first into something hard and very unforgiving... instead.

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Two items that I was issiued in 1969, both unused.

Whether you put it on paradors, springs, chains, etc the longer the instrument (on a flexible handle) the harder it would be to recover and strike again. If you strike an opponent with a flexible 2 feet long device after impact the weighted end is bound to drop by force of gravity. Then to strike again you have to overcome that gravitational pull to get the weight back into striking position. In those few seconds you are likely to be very slightly off balance and vulnerable because you cannot strike again as quickly as you are likely to need to.

If a person used the device I described above and hit me, unless he did serious damage and impaired my response I would do the same thing I would do in a knife attack. I step in close as I could get to device user. That decreases their leverage, allows me to.parry the arm and then deliver a 4 knuckle blow to the neck or a sternum punch. I just think it is better to learn basic H2H techniques than rely on something that could be taken away from you and used against you.

A padlock with a bandana tied to the shackle can be effective and easy to carry.

To put it mildly, the outfit I worked for all those years ago was pretty lax about training and regulations (in short most of us were learning "on the job" what worked and what didn't...) with little direct supervision. All of that changed about halfway through my career and we became the first nationally accredited agency in the Miami area.... In my early years I did witness an occasional officer that used their sidearm... as an impact weapon in the moment (not recommended at all since the slightest tap on the head will leave a bloody individual as a direct result...).

To be sure - a head strike is deadly force any way you look at it, period, if an impact weapon is used (whether it was designed as an impact weapon or is simply some item that was used in an improvised fashion...). If serious injury or death occurs, you'd better have been in a situation where deadly force was appropriate (and in close nasty encounters - there will be times when you're actually facing an armed opponent, though the weapon may not be a firearm - a knife, brass knuckles, or other serious striking weapon in the hands of your opponent might well require deadly force in response to be able to survive... Facing a skilled and well trained martial artist without any weapon might justify use of a weapon in the conflict - but then you'd be relying on the skill of your attorney(s) if charges were brought in the aftermath...

I never had the slightest early training about the use of any sap or blackjack - I was learning from what I saw others employ out on the street. My reluctance to go full force (and "whip heads" ) meant that weapon wasn't useful in my case... A few years later we even lost the ability to carry and use those heavy machined aluminum flashlights after officers down in Miami beat a man to death with theirs (and then tried to cover it up - the infamous MacDuffy case...). The riots that ensued made national news and this was long before the Rodney King incident out in California (you'd have thought that other agencies would have learned from our experience...).

In short - before carrying and using an impact weapon - you might want to consider all the possible outcomes (this from a guy who still does have a sap, a blackjack, and a specially made solid fiberglass rod in the exact dimensions of the ASP baton I was trained to use as a cop..). I consider them doorway weapons... to defend against a sudden unprovoked ambush type assault (to at least give me an opportunity to respond then evade a possible opponent )- and as always, pray they're never needed...

sanpitch said:

Two items that I was issiued in 1969, both unused.View attachment 1142155

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Same, slapper acquired 1969 as part of initial equipment, thankfully also never used. The S&W cuffs, numerous times over the years.

Later, the agency banned the use of slappers, blackjacks, and nightsticks, and went for “daysticks”, short plastic batons. We received no training in the use of the lead embedded slapper.

FL-NC said:

A padlock with a bandana tied to the shackle can be effective and easy to carry.

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A lanyard with large sturdy key ring is my approach. Key ring helps to keep things under control. Grasping the lanyard with the key ring against the meat of the palm just outside my closed fist gives about 4 to 5 inches of lanyard between the fist and the locks. I would not want to get hit by me with this. Anywhere, much less in the head.

I've often wondered how effective one of these might be. Very handy to carry, as a minimum security bike or general purpose lock. Cheap or free at gun dealers.