New to USPSA

A regulation USPSA match will have several divisions for pistols, you may shoot your M&P in Production (10 shots in the magazine) or Limited (full magazine, extensions allowed up to 140mm, 20+ shots); Carry Optics (15 shots in the magazine) if it has a red dot sight. And it will have a division for PCCs, rifle calibers like 5.56 not allowed.

I would shoot what was on hand and not buy a new gun just to start out, you might not like it.

Multi-gun matches where you shoot pistol AND rifle, and likely shotgun, are announced as such.

What club and range is that match at?

I shot USPSA for several years but that's a long time ago. I agree with recommending take the gun you have and see how it goes. Most matches are either handgun or three gun, announced in advance. I found USPSA guys to be very welcoming to new shooters. Arrive early, help set up stages, pick brass when it's your turn, assist with teardown. Will win friends and influence people. Watch and ask questions. Should be a good experience.

Shoot the pistol in Limited or Production. Spending money on a trigger or optic will be a waste of money at this point. You’ll need a good strong-side OWB holster. Kydex or similar is best. NOT serpa. And a few mag pouches that can handle you running around with mags on your belt. Other than that and some ammo you should be good. Bring about double what they recommend. Electronic muffs or earbuds are awesome and let you hear the range commands. Have fun and go nice and slow and be safe.

Axis II said:

They call it action shoots and 2 gun and set it up like USPSA. Its not actually a sanctioned match. They do a combo of the snow fence walls, barrels, circle plates, texas star, etc. Haven’t seen them do a 2 gun but it says its shot from 25-50yards. Not a lot of info on their website.

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Based on this additional information, your best course of action is to contact the match director and ask them all of your questions. Unfortunately, you initially confused the issue by using "USPSA" in the subject line. USPSA is a specific sport with specific rules and there is no way that any of us can provide meaningful information to you about an outlaw match with which none of us are familiar. I've been shooting USPSA since 1994, but I can't address what might or might not be allowed/disallowed or even what to expect based on the information you provided.

Using 223 on steel plates is usually a big NO. Thus, I agree with checking on the specifics. I've shot carbine matches with 223 and only paper! Steel plates with handgun rounds from carbines.

GEM said:

Using 223 on steel plates is usually a big NO. Thus, I agree with checking on the specifics. I've shot carbine matches with 223 and only paper! Steel plates with handgun rounds from carbines.

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Agreed! When steel is used for rifle caliber stages, it's always steel that is capable of taking the hits without cratering and more importantly, the minimum distances are always extended. There are few things more fun than clearing a Texas Star with at 100 yards with five shots from your AR (I've only done it once). I've shot gongs, Pepper Poppers, falling plates, and flashers with 5.56 during 3-gun matches in the past, but it was always at a safe distance and the steel targets were designed for sustaining rifle hits and were sufficiently thick AR500 or better.

Outlaw matches could be any mix of rules or divisions. If the club has seperate handgun and 2 gun matches it might be a good idea to start with just the handgun to familiarize yourself with the procedures and how to safely move through a stage.

Right. My club runs unsanctioned matches but to all USPSA rules and procedures.
But the Defensive Pistol is not quite the same as IDPA.
Your only option is to ask the match director.
But take the MP, and all the magazines you can round up.
Holster and magazine carriers.

Jim Watson said:

A regulation USPSA match will have several divisions for pistols, you may shoot your M&P in Production (10 shots in the magazine) or Limited (full magazine, extensions allowed up to 140mm, 20+ shots); Carry Optics (15 shots in the magazine) if it has a red dot sight. And it will have a division for PCCs, rifle calibers like 5.56 not allowed.

I would shoot what was on hand and not buy a new gun just to start out, you might not like it.

Multi-gun matches where you shoot pistol AND rifle, and likely shotgun, are announced as such.

What club and range is that match at?

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In USPSA, Carry optics doesn't have a mag capacity limit, the limit is 141.25mm of magazine length, same as Limited and Limited Optics.

As of 2024, Production capacity is changed to 15 rounds.

OK, thanks. I forgot about high cap CO and didn't know the P15 proposal had passed.

In that case I recommend the OP shoot Production if his range is following USPSA closely.
If not, he should ask what the devil is going on there and where his present gun will fit.

I’ll also agree that if this is an outlaw match (not an official/sanctioned USPSA match) the rules and setup could be anything the match director dreams up. Best to contact them for specifics.

But beyond that, if you have a gun (or guns) that are reasonably close to what is needed, don’t go and buy new guns or even upgrade parts until you know you like the game and know what division you want to compete in. Gun games tend to be very specific with rules and what is/isn’t allowed and it’s very easy to buy something you THINK will work only to find out that you were wrong.

For example, I shoot carry optics in USPSA and I compete with a gun specifically designed around those rules. I also use that gun as my main carry gun. 99% of the time I am out of the house I’m carrying that gun in the exact configuration I use for USPSA competition.

That same gun is not allowed in IDPA because of some of the modifications.

Swapping a trigger Some modifications could put you out of a “production” division and put you against some very well set up, high dollar guns. Or buying a single action only gun could force you into a different class where you have to spend a lot of additional money to be competitive.



The only exception to the “don’t buy things until you’ve competed and know what you want” rule would be things like holster, mags, and mag pouches/carriers. I wouldn’t go all out, just make sure you can complete the stages.

On the 50 yard shots, you don’t really need a .223 for that. Defer to whatever the match director says, but my local USPSA matches will occasionally have 50 yard targets (paper or steel) that are shot with pistols. It’s not as hard as it sounds, but having an optic really helps. 50 yards with a PCC shouldn’t be an issue.

Almost any trigger mod is legal in Production now.
I'd bet your CO gun is IDPA legal also. The only thing I can think of that would make it not legal would be too fat safeties, thumbrest or mag release button. Comps are even legal in IDPA CO (with some caveats)

The gun companies are introducing new gimmicks faster than the match organizations can provide niches for them.

waktasz said:

Almost any trigger mod is legal in Production now.
I'd bet your CO gun is IDPA legal also. The only thing I can think of that would make it not legal would be too fat safeties, thumbrest or mag release button. Comps are even legal in IDPA CO (with some caveats)

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Good call on the trigger mods being allowed in production. For some reason I thought it wouldn’t be, but reviewing the rules it looks like you can modify the trigger as well as a few other internals.

Unfortunately my CO gun isn’t IDPA legal. It has a weighted brass backstrap which is great for handling and recoil reduction, but as I understand it runs afoul of the “no weight kits” rule (and the allowance for how heavy a replacement grip can be before qualifying as a weighted piece).

Telekinesis said:

Good call on the trigger mods being allowed in production. For some reason I thought it wouldn’t be, but reviewing the rules it looks like you can modify the trigger as well as a few other internals.

Unfortunately my CO gun isn’t IDPA legal. It has a weighted brass backstrap which is great for handling and recoil reduction, but as I understand it runs afoul of the “no weight kits” rule (and the allowance for how heavy a replacement grip can be before qualifying as a weighted piece).

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You can easily swap out the OEM backstrap if you want to shoot CO in IDPA... but you knew that already

1KPerDay said:

You can easily swap out the OEM backstrap if you want to shoot CO in IDPA... but you knew that already

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Well yeah, but honestly I shoot enough USPSA as it is and don’t want to have to modify my gun just to shoot in a game I don’t like that much, and then have to replace the modifications as soon as I’m done.

I do think it’s a little funny that the game generally designed around shooting guns that are actually carried (rather than range only race guns) doesn’t allow me to shoot my defensive carry gun, but maybe that’s just me.



The main point I was trying to make was that the OP, being new to a specific shooting sport, shouldn’t go all in and buy/modify a gun until he has a good feeling for what division he wants to compete in and a good understanding of that division’s rules.

On the other hand, if the OP just wants to buy a new gun and use competitive shooting as an excuse/reason, more power to him. This is a gun forum after all!

Telekinesis said:

Well yeah, but honestly I shoot enough USPSA as it is and don’t want to have to modify my gun just to shoot in a game I don’t like that much, and then have to replace the modifications as soon as I’m done.

I do think it’s a little funny that the game generally designed around shooting guns that are actually carried (rather than range only race guns) doesn’t allow me to shoot my defensive carry gun, but maybe that’s just me.



The main point I was trying to make was that the OP, being new to a specific shooting sport, shouldn’t go all in and buy/modify a gun until he has a good feeling for what division he wants to compete in and a good understanding of that division’s rules.

On the other hand, if the OP just wants to buy a new gun and use competitive shooting as an excuse/reason, more power to him. This is a gun forum after all!

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It's not just you! The equipment rules for IDPA have been the epitome of arbitrary and capricious since its inception. Had the game been truly to test defensive skills with real carry gear, I would have been one of the original members. When I saw the original set of proposed rules in the 1990s, the holster position made it a non-starter for me. The capacity limits were absurd until I saw the connection between the limits on the rules and the products sold by specific interests. When I did become a member and start shooting matches in the early 2000s, it irritated me that I couldn't shoot with my carry gear the way I carried it every day. I refused to download magazines, so I only shot in CDP and ESP divisions. Then a few years ago I fell and injured my shoulder and there was no way I could reach to draw from an allowed holster position (I was fine from AIWB), so I quit and let my membership lapse. I've shot a couple of matches since they started allowing more reasonable holster positions (like AIWB), but I still can't use my carry gun the way I carry it because it's too wide to fit in the box (I'm not grinding safeties down to satisfy an arbitrary rule for a game that's not even that much fun) and I'm not downloading my 18 and 20 round magazines either. By contrast, I've always been allowed to shoot in any USPSA match with my exact carry setup and from concealment (the way I normally dress) in either Limited or Open Divisions (and now Limited Optics).

rhino465 said:

The capacity limits were absurd until I saw the connection between the limits on the rules and the products sold by specific interests. When I did become a member and start shooting matches in the early 2000s, it irritated me that I couldn't shoot with my carry gear the way I carried it every day. I refused to download magazines,

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You don't have to like it but you should understand that when IDPA was organized, maximum ten round magazines were the LAW, under AWB 1994-2004. There was a lot of hanky panky with magazines in USPSA, to the point I was surprised that the feds did not run a sting on the magazine parts racket.

And we still don't know what the OP will actually be shooting. There are a lot of ranges playing their own games, apparently because they think USPSA scoring is too complicated and IDPA stages are too choreographed. Or maybe the members are just cheap and don't want to pay activity fees and association fees, like my club. This is prevalent to the point that Practiscore has separate listings for things like Time Plus.

Axis II said:

Finally got confirmation from the match director and he said its close to IDPA but is actually an outlaw match. I tried watching some videos on outlaw matches and seems the same as the other two.

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I'm not sure you are getting the point people are trying to make here. Outlaw matches are a wild card as far as the rules go. Watching videos on outlaw matches in order to understand what is going to happen at YOUR outlaw match is of only general interest unless the video happens to be of the particular match that you are talking about.

If you are going to watch a bunch of videos then you'd be better off checking some from real IDPA/USPSA matches so you have a basic understanding of their particular rulesets and can then discuss the ruleset of your particular outlaw match with some sort of intelligence and background. And while you are at it download the IDPA and USPSA rulebooks and at least give them a passing glance.

Right.
All you can do is show up and FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS.

My club’s Defensive Pistol is very like IDPA but a mishmash of prior edition rule books. And the Threat targets are marked instead of Nonthreat, which kind of makes sense.

The Tactical-Practical match down the road a ways is a greater departure from IDPA or USPSA, and takes care to meet its demands if you are used to one of the main events.