Which 40 for USPSA

[Dilbert]

I'm planning on trying my hand at USPSA shooting, Production Division. I now shoot IDPA with a 1911 in 45 and 9mm, but it's my understanding that single stack 1911's are not a good idea for USPSA. Staying with a 40 double stack I can go with either a S&W M&P 40 (15 rounds) or a H&K USP Tactical (13 rounds). Which would suit the sport best, and why if I might ask?
Is the Glock 40 long slide or the XD 40 5" a better choice for the sport? Do the rules about mag length apply to the production gun division? Is it a big problem to "only" have 13 - 15 rounds in the gun?
Last but not least, what's the scoop on the STI Edge in 40 with the bull barrel? Is that the way to go in the open division? Why?
Thanks

 

[yar]

For production your M&P and USP would be fine (download to 10+1). In limited your M&P with +5 basepads would be fine. I don't think the USP has basepads to get to 16+1 or above. This would put you at a huge disadvantage in limited (read my earlier post). You could shoot limited 10 (download to 10+1). The STI in 40 would be great for limited but lousy in open. In open it's 9 major or 38 super guns with comps and dots. You would lose too much capacity in 40 (30 round mags vrs 24-25 round mags)

 

[71Commander]

While the mentioned guns are acceptable in production use, the magazine capacity isn't and issue. You can only load the magazines to ten rounds. The first mag is loaded to 10+1. If any other mag has 11 rounds in it, you're shooting "open" for the rest of the match.

No base pads are allowed. If they didn't have em on when they were made at the factory, you can't use em.

While some use a 40 in Production, the large majority use 9mm's. You may get an A zone upgrade hit occasionally using the bigger bullet, your follow up shots will be a little slower in comparison to the 9mm. Remember that you are on the clock. If 40's are all that you have, by all means, use them. I personally like the XD Tac. I've had four of them.

The STI Edge is a whole nuther game. I have a 40 and 45. The 40 is mainly used in Limited. With base pads, I get 20+1. The 45 is used for Limited 10.

Shooting Open with the 40 is somewhat rare. While you can get the 170mm, 26 rounders for the 40, you would be shooting against people using 9 Major or 38 Super guns that have a 30 round capacity and whose follow up shots are going to be faster.

 

[Dilbert]

Stop if I'm wrong. USP 40 or M&P 40 would be best in Limited 10 Major. What about Production Gun?
A 9mm 1911 would be Minor in Limited 10, but my mags only hold 9, is that a very bad disadvantage?
I have double stack 9's (92F and P226), is that a better route to go and stay in Production?

 

[71Commander]

Both the 92 and Sig are excellent Production guns.

As to the 9mm 1911, if you shoot "A's", all scoring is equal and you have an extra round per mag to make up a mistake. It really is a disadvantage though.

It sounds like you're set to shoot in L10 and be competitive. Nothing wrong with your set up.

 

[Darth Muffin]

If you want to shoot your 1911 there is a new single stack division that just started for 2008.

As for production, to me the rules sort of seem stacked to favor striker fired pistols like Glock or XD. There's also not much point in using a .40 when a 9mm will do in Production, unless you want to do handloaded .40-minor loads (which could be pretty nice actually).

I say shoot the gun you want to shoot, and end up in whatever division it puts you in and don't worry about it. You're there to have fun, right? If you want trophies go bowling.

 

[Dilbert]

What kind of mags are needed for the single stack 1911 division? 7, 8, or 10?

 

[71Commander]

8 rounders when shooting 45. 9 when shooting a 9mm

 

[FieroCDSP]

The M&P works just fine. And for the price, you can get a bunch more mags now and not have to wait for them from Smith (although you should definitely mail in for them and the $50 rebate). $400 vs $700-900 for the H&K. I like the 40, but I do agree that the shot times drop a little. With practice and proper hold, it's almost negligible.

 

[MarcusWendt]

I shoot my Sig P226ST in Limited 10. Last time out I tried out my XD5", and I did better. Next I want to try my M&P. I have all of them in .40 S&W.

Glocks, M&Ps, and XDs have a slight advantage in that there's not transition from double to single action after the first shot. With my Sig, I must decock first and then holster to ready myself.

 

[Dilbert]

USP Tactical cocked and locked?

Can you start with a USP cocked and locked (it has a thumb safety like a 1911) in IPSC shooting?
In IDPA the rule book says "Pistols must start from the mechanical condition of readiness appropriate to their design", with a thumb safety I take that to mean cocked and locked is okay. The rule book also says selective SA/DA guns start hammer down. S.O.'s that I've come across seem to break down the middle on non 1911 cocked and locked.

 

[Riss]

Traditional cocked and locked is ok, if there is no acceptable way to drop the hammer. ie if you have a gun that CAN decock you MUST. As for gun choice. If you want a 40 for Limited or Limited 10 get a Glock. If you are going to stay in single stack keep the 1911 in 45. For Open class get the STI. Production you can use the 1911 but there are rules on replacing barrels for different calibers and such. As they say, run what you brung. Only get a new gun if you want a new division, otherwise use what you got. If you stay with the 1911 you can get a 30 cal, pump 12ga and run in the heavy metal class in 3 gun USPSA.

 

[NetJunkie]

USPSA Production was made for 9mm pistols. There is no Major scoring so no use shooting larger than 9mm. It just puts you at a disadvantage unless you load your .40SW down to minor specs and hope your gun cycles fine. At the start signal of a stage in Production your gun must be decocked. So you can't start with a USP cocked and locked. You have to start with it decocked. You can cock the hammer manually after the signal, if you want to use the time. I sometimes shoot Production with my USP9c for practice. I will be using a CZ75 SP-01 Custom soon that just came in. I have to manually drop the hammer to decock it before start. Hassle. As others stated in Production you are limited to 10 rounds in a magazine so capacity isn't an issue. No single action guns allowed in Production..so no 1911s.

Single Stack is a new division. If you have a 1911 I'd suggest you start there. That's the most level playing field for you.

When not shooting Production I shoot Limited 10 with a Brazos Custom 2011 (highly modified STI Edge). I shoot L10 because I enjoy the game w/ reloading more than loading up mags and shooting Limited. At times I also use an HK USP40f w/ mag funnel and fibre sight in L10. I just load the 16-round mags with only 10 rounds. It's a lot harder to compete with that setup but I enjoy the practice with my HK.

 

[TalonArms_R]

netjunkie had the best response so far. I don't know what rules some of you other guys shoot under, but they don't sound like USPSA to me!

As netjunkie said, you already have a couple of 1911s so I would start there.

With standard 8 round magazines you can shoot the Single Stack class. .45 will score you in major so I would use that over the 9mm unless you are an A zone shooter. If you do shoot 9mm, you can have a maximum of 10 rounds in the magazine (not 9). That is provided you have 9mm mags that will hold 10 rounds! They can NOT be modified. Another advantage for you is the holster required for Single Stack must conform to IDPA rules. You can NOT use a race holster or a drop offset holster. Single stack will also require you to keep all magazines behind your centerline. Magazine holders must be the IDPA type and not race type. All this means to you is that the gear you have now is perfect for this class.


With your standard 1911, you can also shoot in Limited 10 if you buy some extended 10 round magazines from Chip McCormick or Wilson Tactical. Limited 10 class would allow you to use a race holster or a drop offset holster. You can also mount your mags anywhere on your belt and use race type mag holders.

Between the two, I would start you in Single Stack if you were coming to a match with me. After you shoot in 4 or 5 local matches and had a chance to see what other pistols are being run in what classes you will have a better understanding of where you want to be for the long haul. You may decide to shoot multiple classes or you may decide you like the Singe Stack class the best.

On that note, I shoot Limited with a .40 STI Edge. With very few exceptions, everybody in limited class shoots an STI or SVI in .40. Some people do shoot Para, but they are few and far between in Texas.

An Edge would be a bad choice for Open class unless you had it modified. Open alows compensators and optics. You can also make major with .38 Super and 9mm. A better Open gun is something like an STI Trubore.



Most of your questions can be answered in the USPSA rule book as for what is allowed and what is not. The simple break down is this:

Production is for 10 round striker fired or DA/SA pistols with no mods. No single actions allowed.

Single stack is for factory 1911s with no extended mags and minimal mods

Limited 10 is for 10 round single stacks with SOME mods

Limited is for double stack mags with capacity higher than 10 with SOME mods

Open is for full blown race guns with comps and optics

Revolver is for revolvers.


I hope this helps and Welcome to USPSA!

 

[71Commander]

Limited 10 is for 10 round single stacks with SOME mods

You can use double stack mags in L10.

 

[1911ONR]

You can use double stack mags in L10.

Correct. Double stack 45s fit well in L-10.

As to the 9mm 1911, if you shoot "A's", all scoring is equal and you have an extra round per mag to make up a mistake. It really is a disadvantage though.

If you're shooting all A's (outside production division), you're going too slow. Remember it's a balance of speed, power and accuracy.