first time offender gets 55 years
- Thread starter Stebalo
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Reading this thread should put to rest any doubts about the actual value that Republicans put on freedom. Not just the nationally elected ones either, but the rank and file membership.
So many people have jumped on the justification that somehow personal responsibility obliges one to do whatever they're told to. You guys are ignoring the fact that government has no moral or constitutional authority to punish a person for using drugs, selling drugs, carrying a gun, destroying the serial number on a gun, evading an income tax, or keeping guns at home. If the guy had a stolen gun, yeah, he should be obligated to make restitution to its rightful owner. But that's the extent of what he actually may have done wrong in this case.
If I put a gun to your head and threaten to kill you for your wallet, does "responsibility for your actions" obligate you to fork over the wallet? Does it justify me shooting you, since you clearly knew the consequences of refusing my demand?
Clearly not.
That's exactly what government is doing when it passes these laws, though. There's no moral obligation to obey an unjust demand made under threat of force. If anything, there may be a moral obligation to disobey such a demand, to prevent the party making the demand from believing they can get away with such action in the future.
So many people have jumped on the justification that somehow personal responsibility obliges one to do whatever they're told to. You guys are ignoring the fact that government has no moral or constitutional authority to punish a person for using drugs, selling drugs, carrying a gun, destroying the serial number on a gun, evading an income tax, or keeping guns at home. If the guy had a stolen gun, yeah, he should be obligated to make restitution to its rightful owner. But that's the extent of what he actually may have done wrong in this case.
If I put a gun to your head and threaten to kill you for your wallet, does "responsibility for your actions" obligate you to fork over the wallet? Does it justify me shooting you, since you clearly knew the consequences of refusing my demand?
Clearly not.
That's exactly what government is doing when it passes these laws, though. There's no moral obligation to obey an unjust demand made under threat of force. If anything, there may be a moral obligation to disobey such a demand, to prevent the party making the demand from believing they can get away with such action in the future.
12-34hom
Member
I can't drive 55..
Yet another misunderstood individual who is making a significant contribution to our society by selling drugs to those who could'nt find them without his help.
The goverment - police - and let us not forget the republican party members are unaware of these facts, Mr. Angelo was doing his civic duty by selling drugs.
12-34hom.
Yet another misunderstood individual who is making a significant contribution to our society by selling drugs to those who could'nt find them without his help.
The goverment - police - and let us not forget the republican party members are unaware of these facts, Mr. Angelo was doing his civic duty by selling drugs.
12-34hom.
FeebMaster
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12-34hom said:
Nice to see someone getting it. I heartily agree and would go so far as to say Mr. Angelos went far beyond doing some civic duty by selling drugs. Here is a man who is going to spend the better part of his life in prison for carrying a gun while filling the public's demand and making a profit in an over-regulated market. Mr. Angelos is clearly a heroic capitalist.
FNFiveSeven
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Just wait...
All you folks who think he got what he deserved for crimes of possession... just you wait. Wait for the day someone frames you, and let's see your story then. This is all the cop has to say: "Yes your honor... I smelled something funny on his clothes... so I looked in the car... and I found 10 sawed off shotguns and 4 kilos of coke!" And there you'll be, crying your eyes out, wishing you had taken a stance against the police state you helped create. Of course, it will be too late, no one will want to have anything to do with a "scumbag drug dealer".
P.S. SLCDave... what's wrong with carbon dioxide? I find it odd to compare a necessary ingredient for all plant life with rattlesnake poison and arsenic.
All you folks who think he got what he deserved for crimes of possession... just you wait. Wait for the day someone frames you, and let's see your story then. This is all the cop has to say: "Yes your honor... I smelled something funny on his clothes... so I looked in the car... and I found 10 sawed off shotguns and 4 kilos of coke!" And there you'll be, crying your eyes out, wishing you had taken a stance against the police state you helped create. Of course, it will be too late, no one will want to have anything to do with a "scumbag drug dealer".
P.S. SLCDave... what's wrong with carbon dioxide? I find it odd to compare a necessary ingredient for all plant life with rattlesnake poison and arsenic.
thats a extreme example
how about this
you loan your car say to your kid
your kids freinds smoke a joint
leave half of it in your car
your driving going to say the bank with cash afterwards the range
your tail light is out cop pulls you over
finds said half joint
takes you large amount of cash as drug money
looks in trunk takes all your guns that you were going to range with
bare minimun your going to need a lawyer to get your guns and money back
possibly jail time
no matter what your out money
how about this
you loan your car say to your kid
your kids freinds smoke a joint
leave half of it in your car
your driving going to say the bank with cash afterwards the range
your tail light is out cop pulls you over
finds said half joint
takes you large amount of cash as drug money
looks in trunk takes all your guns that you were going to range with
bare minimun your going to need a lawyer to get your guns and money back
possibly jail time
no matter what your out money
DRZinn
Member
Why is is that those without logic on their side must deliberately mistake defense of a principle for idolatry of an individual?
TearsOfRage
Member
Yep.
The whole point of 'liberty and justice for all' is that it has to apply to people you don't like. Far too many people talk about freedom but are really only for "freedom to be just like me". :banghead:
The whole point of 'liberty and justice for all' is that it has to apply to people you don't like. Far too many people talk about freedom but are really only for "freedom to be just like me". :banghead:
grnzbra
Member
Pity the poor judge. His hands are tied.
Seems to me that judges like him are the reason for mandatory sentences.
Seems to me that judges like him are the reason for mandatory sentences.
Did any of you happen to find out that Angelos had a rap sheet (including assualt and drugs) leading back to a weapons charge in his teen years?
This guy wasn't a model citizen, and as I see it...... one judge just finally had the balls to get this scum bag off the streets.
It never fails to shock me the amount of lax views towards drugs on a pro-RKBA forum.
This guy wasn't a model citizen, and as I see it...... one judge just finally had the balls to get this scum bag off the streets.
It never fails to shock me the amount of lax views towards drugs on a pro-RKBA forum.
Joe Demko
Member
Why? Being a supporter of the RKBA does not constrain one to also be a supporter of substance prohibitions. If you are referring to somebody shooting while under the influence, nobody okayed that in this thread nor do I think you will find anybody at this board who ever suggested it was okay.
Why does it shock you that people who are pro-freedom are consistently pro-freedom?
It shocks me that people don't see the similarities between the arguments for prohibition are the same for alcohol, drugs, and guns. I guess it only matters if it affects the things you do.
FeebMaster
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DocZinn said:
I don't follow you. Perhaps you could point out which side is lacking in logic or which principles are being defended or something like that.
I was also thinking of adding 'and a fine American in the tradition of Sam Adams and John Hancock,' but I didn't want to go too far. Maybe I should have added it though.
i bet thomas jefferson and george washinton
are glad there not alive they would be doing serious time in club fed
they grew marijauna and they carried guns
the declaration of independence is written on paper made from the weed
and jefferson made numerous references to destroying the male plant to keep the females
you only do this to increase potency
are glad there not alive they would be doing serious time in club fed
they grew marijauna and they carried guns
the declaration of independence is written on paper made from the weed
and jefferson made numerous references to destroying the male plant to keep the females
you only do this to increase potency
DRZinn
Member
FeebMaster:
If the sarcasm I saw in your post was only in my head, then I apologize. I can't stand it when someone who sees someone else defending a principle (eg: He shouldn't go to jail for selling drugs or having a gun, since those actions didn't harm anyone.) acts as though the person is defending the individual. (eg: Because you think he shouldn't go to jail for selling drugs, then you must think he's a great guy for selling drugs. He must be your hero.)
So if you weren't being sarcastic, then I think you went a little far. If you were, then stop being disingenuous.
If the sarcasm I saw in your post was only in my head, then I apologize. I can't stand it when someone who sees someone else defending a principle (eg: He shouldn't go to jail for selling drugs or having a gun, since those actions didn't harm anyone.) acts as though the person is defending the individual. (eg: Because you think he shouldn't go to jail for selling drugs, then you must think he's a great guy for selling drugs. He must be your hero.)
So if you weren't being sarcastic, then I think you went a little far. If you were, then stop being disingenuous.
FeebMaster
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DocZinn said:
I responded to someone who clearly was making a sarcastic post "defending" Mr. Angelos and his civic duty to sell drugs. So, while the first sentence of my post was sarcastic and the second was a bit of an exaggeration since I don't believe in civic duties, the rest of it, including my later addition, I meant wholeheartedly and with no sarcasm.
DRZinn
Member
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to call him a hero, but otherwise we pretty much agree.
And you see my point, right?
And you see my point, right?
Linux&Gun Guy
Member
You do this so the females can't turn into mothers and fill your bud with nasty headache making seeds - only breeding can increase the amount of THC over many plant generations. Thats why we have great wonderfull tasty strains today like Northern Lights and White Widow
I don't know if the dealer was a hero but he was a dealer - think of him like a shopkeeper exept he has no shop and sells illegal goods like cannabis
seeds
seeds
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seed production takes away palnt resourses in making resins which is where you find the highest concentration of thc
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannab...ation1.shtml#4d
The timely identification of a male plant is crucial to the success of the harvest. If the weather is exceptional during the time a male starts producing its flowers and you missed seeing the first signs during your last visit, you could wind up with a lot of seeds and little of the fine erb.
and others
The relative potency of male and female plants has been debated for a very long time. Until recently, there was widespread belief that male plants were psychotropically inactive. This belief may have resulted from the frequently noted procedure in India and other Eastern countries of removing male plants from the field before pollination occurs.70, 295,451 This practice was apparently intended to increase the potency of the female plant.
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seeds
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
seed production takes away palnt resourses in making resins which is where you find the highest concentration of thc
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannab...ation1.shtml#4d
The timely identification of a male plant is crucial to the success of the harvest. If the weather is exceptional during the time a male starts producing its flowers and you missed seeing the first signs during your last visit, you could wind up with a lot of seeds and little of the fine erb.
and others
The relative potency of male and female plants has been debated for a very long time. Until recently, there was widespread belief that male plants were psychotropically inactive. This belief may have resulted from the frequently noted procedure in India and other Eastern countries of removing male plants from the field before pollination occurs.70, 295,451 This practice was apparently intended to increase the potency of the female plant.
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12-34hom
Member
I'm looking at the bright side, this hero will have the next 55 years to reflect on his actions while his sorry ass is parked in a federal pen.
12-34hom.
12-34hom.
FeebMaster
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DocZinn said:
No.
12-34hom said:
You're a beacon of liberty. If only we had fifty million more just like you.
Fletchette
Member
I agree! This guy is such a threat to society that we should lock him up for 55 years, maybe longer! In fact, we should parole murders, rapists and those that commit violent crimes in order to make room in prison for guys like this!
(in case you didn't get this either, sarcasm is intended)
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