(IL) Tragedy triggers push to let judges pack guns

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Drizzt

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Tragedy triggers push to let judges pack guns

By Ray Long
Tribune staff reporter
Published March 11, 2005

SPRINGFIELD -- Judges in Illinois would be able to carry concealed weapons under a bill inspired by the murders of the mother and husband of U.S. District Judge Joan Lefkow.

Sen. Larry Bomke (R-Springfield) said he decided to draft the bill after getting a call from Sangamon County Circuit Judge Patrick Kelley, a former prosecutor, who said judges are concerned about retribution from people who appear before them.

Judges would have to be trained before they could carry a handgun, Bomke said.

Earlier this week, a House committee sent to the full House two measures that would allow individuals to carry a concealed handgun, setting up the potential for a floor fight on the issue.

The Senate last year approved a so-called "concealed carry" bill that would have limited the right to retired police and military police, but the measure died in the House. In the early 1990s, the upper chamber defeated a broader bill that would have allowed individuals to carry concealed weapons following extensive training.

Bomke said many lawmakers viewed the bill for retired police and military police as appropriate because of their experience.

He acknowledged judges might not have the same expertise unless they were former law enforcement officials.

Judge Kelley could not be reached for comment.

The proposal drew support from Senate Minority Leader Frank Watson (R-Greenville).

"That ought to be considered, seriously considered," said Watson, who supports allowing trained individuals to carry concealed guns.

But Sen. John Cullerton (D-Chicago), a longtime opponent of concealed carry legislation, said he did not think he would support Bomke's legislation, although he said he would be willing to listen to judges' concerns.

Cullerton, who helped pass legislation that removed the addresses of local judges from public records in the state comptroller's office, said many people don't believe that legalizing concealed weapons would make them feel safer.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

More of the 'for me, but not thee' mindset...
 
Well, the Atlanta story sort of puts this in better perspective. IIRC, Georgia is a CCW State. IF that is true, then one is hard-pressed to make the case that armed judges will prevent problems.

The Chicago shooter was a nut with a grudge, and while it's possible that one or both of his victims could have stopped him if they were armed, NEITHER of them was a judge. So the Illinois proposal is not well-founded. The ATL shooter was a very bad guy with a cause--to get free. In Atl, a lot of readily-available arms accomplished nada (although in Milwaukee about a year ago, a similar incident was stopped cold by a dead-eye Sheriff with one fatal round.)

Better to pass CCW for all than just for judges, and FAR better that people are very aware of their circumstances.
 
I agree with ninenot, such tragedies should induce our elected representatives to allow all law-abiding citizens to carry and not just the privileged few. I've never been a supporter of stronger penalties for the murders of judges, police officers, practicioners of the alternative lifestyle, or federal employees because their lives are no more precious than the rest of the citizenry and thus I see no reason to elevate them above the common man. The type of job you hold should have no bearing upon your worth in such instances. A life is a life and therefore the punishment for murder should be equal in all cases, regardless.
 
Ninenot, on the facts, you're right. But I can tell you that a few people are noticing that the arguments for allowing judges to go armed are the same arguments that have been advanced on behalf of citizens so many times before.

I believe there are people who are having minds changed (not radically, but people already nearing the tipping point) by this move.
 
So this is the way it works

We have a mass shooting they give a Judge the right to carry and take or rights away. You will see gun control over this. We could outlaw drugs to stop junkies right, oh they are already, must not work right.
 
give a Judge the right to carry
allowing judges to go armed
allow all law-abiding citizens to carry
push to let judges pack guns
Judges in Illinois would be able to carry concealed weapons
who supports allowing trained individuals to carry concealed guns

These are references to bearing arms as a privilege. It's really about Illinois cutting back on infringements on the RKBA. When pigs fly.

Just can't let go
Judges would have to be trained before they could carry a handgun

Bomke said many lawmakers viewed the bill for retired police and military police as appropriate because of their experience.
 
Well, .45, maybe the "incremental" approach will work. I will say this--it has worked very well for the LeftoWackies.

But knowing some of the judges around here, anyway, all that would do is loose another 150 nut-cases with guns...
 
At least one of the Superior Court judges in the county where I worked in upstate NY had his pistol at all times while on the bench. Likewise, the local DA went armed. Of course, in NY, the county court judges can issue THEMSELVES a permit. :rolleyes: They don't have to ask anyone. In other words, they have the same right (which has become a privilege!!) that every citizen once possessed under the Federal Constitution!! :cuss:
 
Well, .45, maybe the "incremental" approach will work. I will say this--it has worked very well for the LeftoWackies.

The so-called "incremental approach" works when you're losing rights, not restoring them.

Setting up special privileges for special people is not the American way.
 
There was a bill in the NM legislature that got a few minutes of noise on the local TV "news" that would allow judges to carry in their court rooms. The judge would have to have a NM CHL though. I will have to do a little looking to find the bill number. What I wonder about this particular bill in NM is if it will apply to judges in the "metro court" building in Albuquerque. The hoplophobia there is so advanced that SWORN PEACE OFFICERS cannot carry their duty side arms in the building.


Edited to add; This bill in NM was introduced BEFORE the Atlanta court shooting and I think it was even before the Chicago killings.
 
Originally posted by nenenot:

Well, the Atlanta story sort of puts this in better perspective. IIRC, Georgia is a CCW State. IF that is true, then one is hard-pressed to make the case that armed judges will prevent problems.

On the surface that would seem to be the case however, Georgia Law does not allow private citizens to cary weapons in public buildings, i.e. courts.

In Atl, a lot of readily-available arms accomplished nada

Once again, that would seem to be the case on the surface. Truth be known, not many people pack in Atlanta. The City of Atlanta has an active campaign against firearms within the city limits, even though state law allows Georgia residents to carry loaded firearms in their vehicles, even without a CCF permit. Something else to remember, this guy moved FAST and hit hard. He carjacked three vehicles within about 20 minutes, attempted to break into one apartment, broke into a house a Customs agent had just moved into, killed him, took his gun and badge, and moved on. If the last person he hadn't encountered hadn't escaped, it's very possible that he would still be on the move.

Wheeler
 
Nothing surprising to me. Just more elitism in Chicago. Oops, I meant to say Illinois.

My take on the whole matter is that they should let everyone carry. The bad guys do!
 
The saddest part about the whole mess here in Atlanta is that Judges are excempt from Ga CCW laws and can carry on creds.
 
Wheeler said:

"Once again, that would seem to be the case on the surface. Truth be known, not many people pack in Atlanta. The City of Atlanta has an active campaign against firearms within the city limits, even though state law allows Georgia residents to carry loaded firearms in their vehicles, even without a CCF permit."

I have found the exact opposit to be true. I open carry when I go downtown in the summer time and have never had a bad experiance with any Atlanta Police officer. I have found them to be very proffesional.
 
Norm357,

Take a look to your right just past the Grady curve on the southbound connector, There is a large billboard that says FACE5 Firearms in Atlanta Can Earn you 5 Years. It's not been as bad since Bill Campbell is no longer the mayor but, old habits die hard. I make it a point to pack when I have to go to Atl, mainly because most of the places I end up are not your run of the mill tourist traps with lots of LEO's around. Take that parkink lot under CNN for example... :)

Wheeler
 
Wheeler, that billboard is saying if you commit a crime with a firearm you get an extra five years in the pokey. Dont commit any crimes and APD wont give you any grief! :D

Norm
 
judges pack guns

Judge Older who heard the Manson trial in the late 60's packed a piece after Manson jump after the judge one day during the trial. Some judges may deceide to do that on their own now.
 
many people don't believe that legalizing concealed weapons would make them feel safer.
It's not about feeling safer :rolleyes: , it's about being safer!

Under current law, CCW in GA is not allowed in the courthouse or at any public gathering.
 
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