More Judges Packing Pistols in Courtrooms

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michaelbane

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Despite more security, states pass laws allowing jurists to arm themselves

Amanda Bronstad
The National Law Journal
December 7, 2006

Despite increased security at courthouses following shootings in Chicago and Atlanta about one year ago, many judges are bringing their own guns into their courtrooms for protection.

Earlier this month, a Florida judge was ordered to accept mentoring after warning a defense attorney that he was "locked and loaded." In May, a judicial ethics committee of the New York State Unified Court System found that it was ethical for a judge to carry a pistol into his courtroom.

In Nevada, Oklahoma and Texas, incidences of violence in the past year have prompted new laws or solidified rules allowing judges to bring guns into courtrooms.

"Judges in our courthouse have been carrying guns almost all the time," said Cynthia Stevens Kent, a Texas judge in the 114th District Court, where a man in a family law case killed his ex-wife and son last year on the steps of a Tyler courthouse.

"We feel strongly about providing adequate security, but it comes down to personal responsibility. And you've got to take responsibility for your own safety," Kent said.

Security concerns were raised last year after a rape suspect grabbed a deputy's gun and killed an Atlanta judge and others. One month earlier, a litigant had killed the husband and mother of a Chicago federal judge who ruled against him.

COVERING THE DOORWAY

Some states allow judges to arm themselves.

In June, a man shot the Nevada judge overseeing his divorce case through the window of his courtroom. Chuck Weller, a judge in the Nevada 2nd Judicial District Court in Reno, who survived the incident, said that judges in Nevada are allowed to carry weapons into the courtroom if they obtain permission from the chief judge.

He declined to say whether he keeps a gun in his courtroom, but noted, "I'm not opposed to it at all. The culture in the community I live accepts firearms."

The shooting prompted U.S. Senator Harry Reid, D-Nev., to introduce legislation to enhance security at both state and federal courthouses.

In another recent incident, Oklahoma District Judge P. Thomas Thornbrugh said he grabbed his gun from his chambers after he heard a loud slam against the wall and shouts for help. He said he knew deputies were taking a prisoner to a nearby bathroom.

"I thought the deputies were being overcome by this prisoner, and their service weapons would be taken," said Thornbrugh, recalling the Atlanta incident. "There were no other deputies around, so I got a pistol out of my desk and covered the doorway until the other deputies arrived."

The scuffle prompted the Oklahoma House of Representatives to pass a bill in March that would allow district judges to have guns in the courthouse. Current law is unclear.

The bill died before reaching the state Senate, but state Rep. Dan Sullivan, R-Tulsa, who introduced the bill, said he plans to try again next year.

In Texas, which permits state judges to carry concealed handguns into courtrooms, a new law became effective that expands that right to include federal judges and district attorneys. The law followed the Tyler shooting.

"We believe each judge should be able to make sure he has a system of self-defense," said Kent, who wears a shoulder harness and carries a gun at all times. "One of our biggest areas of target is when we're in the court making decisions."

FIGHTING GUN BANS

In May, New York's Advisory Committee on Judicial Ethics issued an opinion that found it ethical for a judge to carry a pistol while on the bench.

In Florida, where Bay County Judge Michael Hauversburk recently threatened a defense attorney with his handgun, state law permits concealed weapons. But a bill that died last year would have specifically allowed judges to bring concealed firearms into courtrooms. Similar bills were introduced and failed last year in North Carolina and Illinois.

On Jan. 1, Kansas plans to permit judges and whomever they designate to carry concealed firearms in the courtroom. Phillip Journey, the state senator who authored the bill and a practicing attorney, said he spent a decade seeking to overturn a blanket prohibition on firearms in the courthouse.

"If I had a judge's permission, I'd do it every day," he said of bringing a gun into the courtroom. "Guns are like lawyers: Better to have one and not need it than need one and not have it."
 
I have no problem with judges who pack in court to protect themselves, with one proviso. They cannot pack or own if they have ever been party to a any
case or ruling that limits the rights of honest citizens to exercise 2nd Amendment rights. No exception, no excuses.

I can not abide hypocrisy and judges, especially in communist cities such as Chicago, New York, Boston etc routinely jail honest citizens for bogus gun charges. ( any law prohibiting gun ownership or possession by a non felon is
a bogus law resulting in bogus charges). Whats good for the goose should apply. If any non felon in their city or county cannot own or carry then they should be prohibited also.

But then I feel that LEO's in these restrictive jurisdictions should also be barred from carrying when not on active duty.
Hypocrisy is hypocrisy no matter who is being discussed.
 
hmmm...

...To Hell With That,

I still think it was a mistake to allow judges to bar guns in the old saloon court days...

If everyone was equal, there'd be a lot more justice everwhar;)
 
Originally posted by thexrayboy:

I have no problem with judges who pack in court to protect themselves, with one proviso. They cannot pack or own if they have ever been party to a any
case or ruling that limits the rights of honest citizens to exercise 2nd Amendment rights. No exception, no excuses.

I can not abide hypocrisy and judges, especially in communist cities such as Chicago, New York, Boston etc routinely jail honest citizens for bogus gun charges. ( any law prohibiting gun ownership or possession by a non felon is
a bogus law resulting in bogus charges). Whats good for the goose should apply. If any non felon in their city or county cannot own or carry then they should be prohibited also.

But then I feel that LEO's in these restrictive jurisdictions should also be barred from carrying when not on active duty.
Hypocrisy is hypocrisy no matter who is being discussed.

I could not have said it better. I dont know if I feel safe with the judge being able to bring a pistol into the court room. I mean I am not allowed to so why should they. If justice is truly to be served and all men/women are created equal how come they are more equal in the courthouse than I am?

If they say its their courtroom, thats fine. But its my tax dollars that pay for it. It really pisses me off to no end when I see things like this being discussed in a paper. They make it sound as if it is perfectly ok and natural. But why dont they mention the fact that other people, the "little" people cannot carry into a courtroom without fear of arrest.
 
Thugs in robes.


Lately, I'm beginning to think they want the personal protection because they fear the consequences of their self-acknowledged tyrannical anti-freedom decisions, rather than a fear of criminal activity in a court room.
 
In Florida, where Bay County Judge Michael Hauversburk recently threatened a defense attorney with his handgun

Is anyone else profoundly disturbed by this?
 
"Similar bills were introduced and failed last year in North Carolina and Illinois."

Why am I not surprised it failed in Illinois
 
Don't Tread On Me: "Lately, I'm beginning to think they want the personal protection because they fear the consequences of their self-acknowledged tyrannical anti-freedom decisions, rather than a fear of criminal activity in a court room."

Yeah, I agree. When more and more people want to kill you because of your actions... it could be that your action are wrong.

Maybe if we made them face the consequences of their illegitimate rulings unarmed, then they'd think twice before screwing over the common citizen :D
 
I have no problem with judges who pack in court to protect themselves, with one proviso. They cannot pack or own if they have ever been party to a any
case or ruling that limits the rights of honest citizens to exercise 2nd Amendment rights. No exception, no excuses.

I can not abide hypocrisy and judges, especially in communist cities such as Chicago, New York, Boston etc routinely jail honest citizens for bogus gun charges. ( any law prohibiting gun ownership or possession by a non felon is
a bogus law resulting in bogus charges). Whats good for the goose should apply. If any non felon in their city or county cannot own or carry then they should be prohibited also.

But then I feel that LEO's in these restrictive jurisdictions should also be barred from carrying when not on active duty.
Hypocrisy is hypocrisy no matter who is being discussed.


________________________________________________________

makes me crazy, here in California our Senator Finestein has a carry permit and she heads the fight to take away our guns.

who votes for these morons?

BTW, hello all :D
 
Last edited:
slant

heres a different slant on what the judge in florida did

Judge Michael Hauversburk Brings a Gun To Court
« Thread Started on Nov 13, 2006, 2:18pm »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11.11.2006 - PANAMA CITY, Fla. -- A first-year Bay County judge was ordered to accept mentoring after bringing a loaded gun into his courtroom and announcing he was "locked and loaded."

County Judge Michael Hauversburk said he brought the handgun to court because he was frustrated that a defendant facing a felony parole violation was being tried for a separate misdemeanor charge in a courtroom with inadequate security, The News Herald reported for Sunday editions.

According to the courtroom's recording system, Hauversburk told the defense attorney he was "locked and loaded," then said: "Tell your client that the deputies have certain constraints about the rules of engagement, but I do not. If he does anything that I see as a threat to me or anybody in this courtroom, then I'm going to fire first and ask questions later."

Hauversburk told the newspaper that he overreacted. This year is Hauversburk's first on the bench.

"I got frustrated when I shouldn't have," he said.

The July 24 incident was not reported to Chief Circuit Judge William Wright until last month. Wright said Hauversburk assured him it was an isolated incident and accepted mentoring.

"He made the wrong decision," Wright said. "All new judges have a learning curve they have to go through, and it takes a while to get adapted to the system."

Judges are permitted by state law to carry concealed weapons.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FL_ARMED_JUDGE_FLOL-?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US
 
Thanks for the post, cassandrasdaddy. I had been picturing the judge brandishing his gun 'cause he was upset at the attorney :)

Still, though, he deserves to be reprimanded, at the very least. There's no need for him to give such a verbal warning. Just carry and shut up.
 
"We feel strongly about providing adequate security, but it comes down to personal responsibility. And you've got to take responsibility for your own safety," Kent said.
What makes me mad is that judges and legislators understand the issue, but too often refuse to act on it except for their own benefit.
 
i'd pay

to see the look on the defendants face when the judge announced that he was packing and watching him. might have been a priceless moment assuming he was not so dimwitted to miss the point. I can envision judge femia doing that. Or mills lane. and the judge was legal, heck was awful nice to warn him, some mighta just lay in wait
 
This is a debate IN is having as well. I thing it is BS. Either bar everyone from having weapons in the courthouse or let them bring weapons. We shouldn’t create a different standard just because of ones occupation. If there are to be no-go zones, then they should apply to everyone or don’t create no-go zones.
 
Judges

Don't have a single problem with judges and even prosecutors packin' in the courtroom as long as they afford me the same privelege. My life is just as valuable as theirs...at least it is to me. Not so concerned with having to use it IN the courtroom, but going to and from the hall of justice from the parking deck leaves me disarmed in a pretty shady area of town. Yeah yeah, I know...
The police will protect me there.
 
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