Farm defence rifle

Howdy, it's my first post!

Quote: i'll probably pick an empty lot around me to set up a range, so i can practice at ranges of 50-100 yards, which is about what i'd expect to be shooting the dogs at..

I'm a lever-action lover, and if you aren't going to hunt medium-sized game, you could get a lever gun chambered in .38 spl/.357 magnum. Plenty of power for a dog-sized animal at those ranges with .357 ammo - maybe a bit harder to find used than a .30-30, though. Cheap ammo, no recoil and not a lot of noise. Not a bad choice for self-defense, either.

But, if you think you might hunt deer, the .30-30 would be a great choice.

Welcome to THR!

You've got several good choices and all of them available at good prices. In summary:

I love Mosins and that may be your cheapest avenue. It's an excellent choice. However, it may have a bit much noise and recoil for you starting out. A cheap Mauser would be about the same, for all practical purposes, but they usually run a bit more.

I also love SKSs and don't see a downside if you find one for a good price.

30/30s are great, but the ammo is going to be quite a bit more, since there's no surplus available.

A break open 12GA will do everything and is probably available for less than $75 dollars, maybe $50.

Pretty much any of the above will be well priced and completely adequate. The deciding factor will probably be: What can you find locally at the best price? Get that, and you'll be fine. Good luck with everything.
RT

Back in the good old days at home in AL, most every farm truck had a single shot shotgun or a bolt action .22 rimfire in the gun rack. Those were considered sufficient to handle whatever pest problems arose on most farms. And in almost all cases they worked fine.

But then the coyotes started showing up. They were a real problem, harassing cattle, killing newborn calves, etc. Relatively low powered short range firearms weren't doing the job any more, and all of a sudden scoped bolt action centerfire rifles were showing up in a lot of farm trucks. They are still there, among the folks who run cattle.

I got my first centerfire rifle in about 1975, when this change started happening. It was a Ruger M77 in 6mm Remington. My grandfather thought it was little short of a miracle. Before I went off to college full time he would come by the house every so often and yell, "Get your gun!" There would be feral dogs or coyotes after a cow or calf, and he'd drive to within a few hundred yards and stop so i could shoot. He was always amazed at how far the flat-shooting 70 gr. bullets would reach. We buried a lot of trouble that last couple of years I was at home.

I'd recommend either a .223 or a .243 in one of the little NEF single shots, with a standard weight barrel and a decent scope. They are accurate and cheap by comparison. Not at all fancy, but they will get the job done. A shotgun generally lacks the range and a .22 rimfire lacks power. I'd use lighter bullets, 45 grain Winchester white box varmint loads do well in the .223, and the 65-75 grain .243 varmint bullets generally will too. The lightly constructed bullets are less of a worry than full bore .30s in similar circumstances.

lpl/nc

Well, it depends on whether you want to kill them or scare them off.

You said yourself that since they're eating chickens, they need to be put down. So forget about shotgun salt rounds then. Therefore, I'd opt for the very low-priced SKS on your budget, which gives you a much longer range than a .22 rimfire or shotgun slug (though not as much range as a .223 or .243 for example - however, on your budget, it's probably the best choice). Using birdshot on an animal like a dog is not humane, IMO, because enough lead may lodge in them, making for a slow, painful death. If your goal is to scare them off, then the 12 ga with salt or lard rounds would work, albeit giving you very limited range.

On second thought, Lee's idea of an NEF single shot in .243 or .223 would be even better (longer practical range), and not *much* more $$ than an SKS.

so much to consider.

yes, these dogs needs ot be put down, however, in the future, if dogs start coming around, it would be nice to be able to scare them off without killing them, if all they are doing is looking around. i suppose that a shot across the bow with pretty much anything would do the trick.. but with a shotgun it makes it a little harder to get close and not hit them, this is wheni might use salt.. but, maybe one loud 30/30 boom and some flying dirt would be enough to scare the piss out of em, discouraging them from visiting again.

i really appreciate all of this.. i feel like when i get home next week, i'll be a little more prepared to talk to people about what i'm looking for. (i'm away for the week building a pergola for my mom).

one question about the requirements to be able to possess a firearm.. "domestic violence" means your own domecile, like wife and kids, right? when i was a younger kid than i am now (minor) i was arrested for going to a persons house and "discussing" with him threats on my life he had been making. i was arrested but released the same day. i should be okay to have a legal gun then?

and, if i buy the gun off of a fellow who doens't need his rifle anymore, do i have to register it? or do i just have to fit those qualifications?

thanks again all!

kim

sakred, that would be aggravated assault. If you weren't convicted, you should be good to go.

sakred- you aren't going to scare them off, loud boom or not. if they have found a food source, you might scare them off for a few hours, maybe even the night, but they'll be back. don't screw around w/ 'em.

our 'farm defense' battery is pretty extensive, but if i were looking to find something on the cheap that would do the job because i was without and was in need, i'd look for a mauser bolt gun. turks are pretty cheap, and will do the job.

and, bird shot is an effective killer at close range. currently, there are 3 rottweilers and a pair of mixed-breed dogs laying under our cornfield that will attest to that - 12 ga, 6-shot high brass, less than 20 yards...

'course, if i was serious about defense against critters like these, a bolt gun in 308 w/ a 16-20" barrel loaded w/ 165's of some flavor would work nicely for as far as i care to shoot 'em.

An SKS is an excellent choice. You have internet access (maybe not at home but at least within reach from what I can tell) - so learning all you need to know about the rifle (which isn't much!) will take a few minutes. I disagree that it is not a good beginner's rifle - it worked very well as a beginner rifle for me.

Soft points are easy to find in 7.62x39 (at least for my neck of the woods - I can't imagine it being hard anywhere else, it's such a common caliber). Wolf carries them. Would work well on dogs.

Best of all, the rifle's fun as hell.

dakotasin, these dogs i'm trying to kill. other, future, dogs may deserve the benefit of the doubt. i'll only kill dogs who have crossed a certain line, and that's not necessarily my property line.

kim

I have to agree with the SKS suggestions. Cheap own, cheap to shoot, very effective round for your stated purpose. You might have to travel a little to find one, but ammo can be delivered to your doorstep.

BTW, beautiful country you live in. 20-25 years ago, I used to spend time across the bridge and south of Arroyo Hondo (Stagecoach Springs) but now days I steer clear of the Taos area completely. Still spend time on the NM backroads and try to drive NM 4 once every couple years at least. Got relatives in the south (Las Cruces) and there's still plenty of New Mexico to go camping and hiking in without running into the artsy-fartsy crowd at every turn.

sakredchao,

Hey - I have a friend from down in Arroyo Hondo who was involved in those 'spanish-hippy' wars. Sounds like wild times - ax handles and rifles seem to have been the weapons of choice. Sometimes you have to kick a little ass to get respect, I guess.

I think a lever-action 30-30 is a great way to go, but there are other rifles, like the SKS that are as cheap, have about the same accuracy, and that shoot comparable rounds. One thing about the 30-30 is that the ammunition is not really that cheap - about $5-$10 for a box of 20. The SKS is a great rifle, cheap and durable, fairly accurate, and the ammo is $3 or less for a box of 20. Since you said you wanted to spend some time practicing to become a decent shot, this may be relevant.

The SKS is, of course, a surplus semi-auto military weapon, and looks slightly more intimidating than a lever gun, although nothing like an AK-47 or M-16. This may or not matter to you, but fewer people find the old lever gun to be threatening. I have both and love them both, partially because they are cheap and dependable, and have a hard time imagining a likely circumstance where either would not be sufficient for the task.

You might just go to a gun store and check them out before making any decisions.

any firearm that is built to kill is as threatening as the person holding it. I see a .44 mag lever as more threatening than a .223 mall ninja rifle.

So what if certain rifles "evoke images" of "bad guys". Just because you use a big sledge hammer doesnt mean you're posing for a communist propaghanda poster.

I don't necessarily agree that a military-style rifle should be avoided because of looks, after all I have several. I am merely pointing out what may be a factor for some folks, especially those who are not as experienced with firearms and are looking around for honest advice.

I don't see where Roscoe said to avoid them? I have to agree with his premise.

I have an early 99 Savage lever-gun in 243 that I use for just that purpose. Fast, easy to get into action and it only cost me about 325 dollars. All steel and will last forever.

-Brickboy240

i was arrested but released the same day. i should be okay to have a legal gun then?

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If you were never convicted of anything you should be fine.

This thread is interesting. It is a real life application of the ever popular forum question, "If I could have only one gun...".

No one has mentioned the new 17 caliber rimfires yet. Flat shooting and good out to 150 yards or more. The rounds are a lot cheaper than a 30-30 which is also a good choice, but the 30-30 is not as economical as a rimfire if you are planning to shoot for "fun" fairly often.

I've never been able to minimize my list to just "one".

I'll always need "at least" three - a shotgun, a rimfire rifle and a centerfire rifle.

I'm looking forward to hearing what you end up with.

No one has mentioned the new 17 caliber rimfires

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I don't think a 17 gr. bullet is going to properly put down a German Shepard, unless it's a head shot, and that's not really an option according to the thread. Plus, aren't those .17s still pretty pricey?
RT

wolf- tmm and tornado pretty much sum up my experiences w/ the 17's... just too light to do serious work. the rimfires have a hard time cleanly taking coons, and have a dickens of a time w/ coyotes. have yet to try them on anything bigger because i have no confidence. some of the hot 17's (read: centerfires), like the 17 rem, 17 mk4 can handle coyotes pretty well, but still are not to be trusted on anything much over 40-45 pounds...

one gun to do it all, w/ the focus on defense of home against critters around the size of feral dogs, and to do it cheap: i stand by my original suggestion of an 8mm turk mauser. bolt guns are extremely tough, and very simple. nothing to screw up...

Remember that the original post said that they couldn't spend too much money.

Kim - How much money are you willing to spend on the gun and how much per year, say, are you willing to spend on ammunition? Knowing this information will narrow the selection. Do you think you are going to shoot targets for recreation or just bring the rifle out when you need to protect your own animals? That will help determine your ammunition costs.

Rimfire 22LR will cost about 2-3 cents each. ($1 to 1.50 a box)

Rimfire 17 caliber is going for about 15 cents each ($7.50 a box)

Centerfire 30-30 will be about 50 to 60 cents each. ($10-$12 a box of 20)

Wolf .223 or 7.62x39 is about 10 cents around but not suitable for hunting.
Hunting grade ammunition in these two calibers will be close to the 30-30 costs.

A new Marlin or Savage bolt action rimfire in .22lr, 22Mag or .17 caliber will be anywhere from $100 to $200. A reasonably good scope will be about $50.

A used .22LR rifle, bolt or semi-auto will be roughly 60% to 70% the price of a new one.

A new centerfire bolt rifle will be $300 to $450, Remington, Savage, etc

A new Marlin or Winchester 30-30 will be $300 to $400, used, 50% to 70% of new.

These are ballpark prices, but you can see that when you narrow down the amount you are willing to spend for the gun and ammo, the selection will narrow too.

Good Luck.....

Wolf .223 or 7.62x39 is about 10 cents around but not suitable for hunting.
Hunting grade ammunition in these two calibers will be close to the 30-30 costs.

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Wolf has SP ammo. It is as cheap or very close to the price of their normal FMJ stuff.

Wolf .223 or 7.62x39 is about 10 cents around but not suitable for hunting.
Hunting grade ammunition in these two calibers will be close to the 30-30 costs.

Wolf has SP ammo. It is as cheap or very close to the price of their normal FMJ stuff.

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Exactly. Hunting quality .223 ammunition will set you back some. But hunting grade 7.62x39 isn't all that much more expensive than your average FMJ.