Lake City XM193PD reliable?

PD is Pull Down. Stuff that is not good enough to put into the XM193 Box. Seated too deep, weigh too much or too little, or bent, dented really bad or creased. I have heard of a lot of Squib loads in the PD so be carefull. If it is not in the XM193 box I will not shoot it. The way I look at it if it is not good enough to make it into the XM193 box it is not good enough to shoot through my rifle. For some reason it was pulled.

That is a really good article about the XM193 PD. I thought I would just copy the main portion about the grades in to the thread. The thing that gets me is some of the vendors at the gun shows I attend are selling the XM193PD at the same price as the XM193. They are as if it is the same exact ammo that is boxed. At least that is what one of them said to me. I knew it wasn't but just be carefull of what you buy.



The Lake City Army Ammunition Plant is the only remaining small-arms ammo factory owned by the government, and is the source of most ammo used by the US military. [Due to the drastic increase in ammo usage with the WoT, Winchester/Olin, the only other company with the loading machines to make mil-spec ammo, has been given a contract for a few million rounds of ammo.]

Lake City, while owned by the government, has always been run by civilian contractors. From 1986-1999, it was operated by Olin (Winchester). The Winchester "white box" "Q-load" ammo (such as Q3131) was Lake City-manufactured ammo stamped with Winchester (WCC) headstamps.

Starting in 2000, the contract to operate Lake City was given to Alliant Techsystems (ATK), who had just bought all the gun-related companies that were formerly owned by Blount. This "shooting sports group" included: Federal, Speer, CCI, RCBS, Weaver, Outers, Ramline, and perhaps one or two others. ATK chose Federal to run Lake City, and thus, the "Federal XMxxx" loads were born.

The US military has extremely tough and strict requirements for ammo, and many layers of Quality Control (QC) checks to ensure that contract ammo is up to spec. Obviously, as with any mass-produced item, some of the product is going to fail QC.

LC-produced ammo that passes all the QC checks is packaged up and sent out to fulfill military contracts. I call this "Grade 1" ammo, which means "the best." Note that ammo that is delivered to the military can no longer be surplussed as whole ammo, due to an Executive Order by Klinton in 1997, so as a rule, this ammo will never be available on the commercial market.

Ammo that fails QC in a minor way, such as not being completely moisture-sealed, but is otherwise good ammo is "Grade 2". That's what "XM193" is that Federal sells in 20-round boxes: Grade 2 ammo. The same with XM855.

Ammo that has more serious problems, such as severe dents, bent rounds, split necks, and so on, is "Grade 3" (or worse). Federal is selling this as XM193PD and XM855PD, and packs it loose in 500 round boxes. (For those who haven't been around long, loose-packed ammo is almost always Grade 3 or lower quality, no matter who you buy it from. If it was higher quality, it would have been boxed up and sold at full price!)

It is important to understand that batches of Grade 2 ammo may be made up of a mix of Grade 1 and Grade 2, and that Grade 3 ammo may have both Grade 1 and Grade 2 ammo mixed in. The grade is given based on the worst ammo in the lot.

XM193PD (Grade 3) is sold at a discount compared to the boxed XM193 (Grade 2), and real M193 is not available to the public (unless it was surplussed before 1997). Discounted prices on ammo generally mean the ammo is lower quality, especially when the same ammo is sold for two or more different prices, so this really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Also note that the PD loads are clearly marked "For Practice Use Only", another indication that this is DEFINITELY NOT Grade 1 (or even Grade 2) ammo.

Hopefully that clears up any confusion you might have. For those who have purchased "PD" ammo, make sure you hand-sort it first, and cull out any bad rounds. Also, be prepared for a squib load or any other unusual behavior, and make sure you know what to do when and if something occurs.

TC66 said:

PD is Pull Down.

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according to the folks at ar15.com, what exactly 'pd' stands for is unknown at the moment

"PD" simply means bulk-packed--nothing more, nothing less. By no means does it relate to the quality of the ammo. However, bulk-packaging is often how surplus ammo is supplied. Surplus tends to mean "no longer top notch or current military stuff". And as we all know, surplus does not at all mean unserviceable, especially for all of us "high-speed" internet special ops, GTW, SHTF types with our pimped-out, bling-blingy semi-automatic firearms.

So, no--PD does not mean any of the following:

"Pull Down"
"Pretty Dirty"
"Probably Dangerous"
"Probably Defective"
"Plenty Dinged-up"
"Please Dispose"
"Personal Danger"
"Poor Dude"
"Put in Dumpster"
"Property Damage"
"Physically Damaged"

Nor a thousand other made-up meanings. I'm sure you guys will add some to the list. Let's see how out-of-hand we can make it get. Funny thing is we'll probably see one of our made-up meanings being passed around the internet as if it's the "no-kidding" truth.

Guys in my club are all in a tizzy because I just ordered 1000 rounds of this stuff through Natchez. They seem to think I'm going to KB my rifle. I normally buy the Q3131A but you can't find it anymore. I know it's good stuff. I am not familair with Federal enough to beware of the part number designations. Thing that ticks me off is that Natchez is touting this stuff as "exactly the same ammo our troops use" or ome other such nonsense. Surely they wouldn't intentionally sell ammo that could potentially be unsafe or damaging to someone's gun. That's just asking for a lawsuit. Therefore, I assume other than a few spec. issues and cosmetics, this stuff is just fine for 3-gun and plinking, right? At $169 per 1000 how can you not afford to run it.

Greg

nobby said:

"PD" simply means bulk-packed--nothing more, nothing less. By no means does it relate to the quality of the ammo

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That could be, but what does "For Training Use Only" mean, and why doesn't it say that in big block letters on XM193 sold in individual 20 round boxes?

I think the best-informed concensus is that it's fine for plinking ammo (after you've looked it over to cull out any questionable rounds), but that it really shouldn't be your "go to" ammo. The corollary to this is that if the PD costs nearly as much as regular Lake City stuff, it's probably not a great deal, but then again the regular stuff is pretty hard to find.