What is the cheapest effective "homeland defense" arsenal?

personally, i like the sound (and price) of a model 10, a mossberg 500, and a marlin 30-30.

Mossberg Maverick88 in the 18½ barrel, after market pistol grip and heat shield.
1 in the pipe, 5 in the tube. I believe in Buckshot and slugs.

Bersa Mini Thunder 9- Never a fail to feed, or eject. It shot a perfect CHL score, and that's what it is for.
Marlin 22 with tube feed, and simple scope. It will keep their heads down while i'm reloading the shotgun.


extras
S&W 581 L-frame .357 mag.
Another Marlin 22
Hi-point .380

I have less than a grand in the 6 guns, and have nearly $450 in the S&W. Since i got it used, and have done some work on it, it is also the least reliable.

Look for the sales at stores like Academy. You can make off like bandit.

Mossberg, Bersa, and Hi-point have good to excellent warranties.

marlin

marlin .357 lever and a gp100 or sp101
the GP and it's little brother the SP are reliable can fit in a fanny pack, the lever gun is not as scary looking as an AR and maybe wont get confiscated right away.
I have a tricked out AR with an EO Tech scope and other bells and whistles and I like shooting the lever gun more then the AR.
A .357 out of a lever gun should be plenty for big dogs and bad guys...I am not an expert in stopping power and have never had to use it but I've shot some phone books and the .357 does a lot of damage

What USMCRotrHed said.

And I would not agree with those who suggest a handgun over a rifle. If you get onto a skirmish armed with just a handgun you are potentially in trouble no matter who, armed with what, are your assailants. If they have rifles and you but a handgun - even one badguy - you are at a serious disadvantage from the getgo.

Rifle bullets will pulverize many building materials and structures, and can generally be directed at ranges far beyond even what far above average shooters can even dream of approaching with a service pistol or revolver.

If I were restricted to just one firearm - it would be a rifle. No matter whether an SKS, a Mosin-Nagant, K31 etc, a 30-30 or other bolt-action sporter.

If a good rifle means a really cheap handgun, so be it. I know and have known people that have bought plenty of cheap but very serviceable handguns; like older model Ruger service revolvers for example in the $125 range.

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Cheap and effective.

My picks would be the following:
Pump shotgun
Centerfire bolt action
Semi-auto handgun
.22 rifle

You can get cheap yet reliable variations on all these. Most aren't pretty or terribly accurate, but that's nor what we're after. My personal picks are a Model 500 12 guage, an AR-15, a 1911 and a Marlin tube feed bolt action. Shotgun is great HD, centerfire if you need reach to forestall a rush of looters, etc, the pistol is portable and the .22 will feed you.

Rifle rifle rifle. Pistols are only good for carry and are inferior in every other way. You carry them when you arent expecting trouble but want to be prepared.

Any milsurp will be good. I recommend an SKS or an AK depending on what you can afford. SKS's arent 50 states legal. A CA legal SKS will costs 150-200+ because of the cost of removing the evil features.

"Sgt., theres some guy over there with a rifle, looks like a zombie". "Shoot him, Jones." "OK"

"Hey , Joe, some guy over there with couple of good looking females." "He's got a rifle, though." "Louie, take the M-70, lay down here and shoot him." "OK"

There are times when discretion is priceless.

beerslurpy
Rifle rifle rifle. Pistols are only good for carry and are inferior in every other way. You carry them when you arent expecting trouble but want to be prepared.

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Pistols are good for concealment - in the event that local law enforcement wants to confiscate all weapons to protect you from yourself.


Post Katrina = conceal, conceal, conceal. Show nothing. May have more to do with urban v/s rural environments but even away from the city, you just cannot show your cards (weapons).

(With respectful regards to our friendly THR LEO)

[BPost Katrina = conceal, conceal, conceal. Show nothing. May have more to do with urban v/s rural environments but even away from the city, you just cannot show your cards (weapons). ][/B]
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Sir, Im from New Orleans. Right now Im looking out of my office window at the Superdome. After Katrina there wasnt much concern with concealment for homeowners. When I walked outside to put gas in my generator I always had my M1A on my shoulder; I wanted would-be looters to see that I was armed and not the easiest of targets. The Gaurd stopped and talked to me a lot and actually complimented me on my rifle.

Weapons on the cheap-
Rifle- .30cal:SKS, or AK .22: Marlin tube fed or Ruger 10/22
Handgun- New Ruger P89/95(reliable as hell and can be found new for under 300 dollars)
shottie- Mossberg

Offthepaper wrote

Haven't heard anyone consider the CZ52. I know they're cheap enough. Are there reliability issues?

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I had a CZ 52, a very impressive weapon. Reliability issues are:

Fragile firingpin (do not dryfire). New firingpins are avialible but may effect function of decocking lever/safety. Not to mention the wisdom of putting a decocker on a single action only pistol .

Rollerlocking pins may deform, replacements are available.

Lack of major ammo manufacturers offering 7.62 X 25 in a JHP/JSP load, FMJ loads are hot but zip through BGs and most modern home/apt construction.

not trying to hi-jack, but somebody PLEASE enlighten me as to the practicality of the .22LR in a home defense/SHTF role....aside from cheap ammunition and easy, cheap practice. assuming you can only have so much at your disposal, and that you would have even less if you had to bug out, why waste the space? i'm not opposed to the idea, i just have no experience with the .22

not trying to hi-jack, but somebody PLEASE enlighten me as to the practicality of the .22LR in a home defense/SHTF role....aside from cheap ammunition and easy, cheap practice.

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That pretty much sums it up. One could possibly add its advantages in small-game subsistence hunting (squirrels, rabbits--relatively quiet with the right loads, doesn't tear up the meat), but that's just not practical for 99% of the population IMHO.

A .22 can be decent for defensive purposes (I'm thinking of a Ruger 10/22 with a 25 or 50 round magazine and a red dot, for example), but IMHO it's not the best choice. Way better than nothing, though...

a 22 rifle is quite a handy thing (in case of medium term emergency) for teaching those family members who have a somewhat belated desire to learn how to shoot.

I'd steer clear of the P64. It's a Polish P64, not a Makarov. Only a Makarov is a Makarov. And if you want something that'll likely work forever even if left in a drawer, check out the $230 Ruger GP100 .357/.38 special revolvers at southernohiogun.

As to the carbines, check out the Kel-Tec Sub 2000, too. The fold-in-half design is both nicely stoweable in a car or truck cabin in a SHTF evacuation, and can be locked folded to keep kids or others from messing with it.

For myself, the "SHTF ensemble" would be Taurus PT92 hidden in shoulder holster with several 17rd mags in reserve, Rem 870 18" barrel with a bandolier strap of everything (#00, #4, red flares, slugs, and a couple of scare-off-a-crowd flashbangs) and a BUG of a tiny Beretta 950 in a pocket. Still need to decide on a good rifle, likely an SKS, to be fitted with a folding stock.

I'm less worried about hunting than I am about fending off the worthless sorts of human beings that become animals after a disaster and loot and attack the property of others.
And I don't mean the kind that just pick up food from a smashed store if hungry, that's survival, I mean the kind that try to carjack, swarm in mobs, and invade homes.

Assault Rifle: either SKS- $150 or less, AK- $300 or less, or CETME- $350 or less. These rifles are relable and cheap.
Sniper Rifle: Winchester 70- $350 or less used w/scope. Accurate and reliable.
Shotgun: Remington 870 or Winchester 1300: $150 or less when used. Do not get Mossy or Charles Daly. These two are inexpensive because they are crap.
Pistol: Ruger or S&W Sigma- $250 or less used. Cheap and brand names.
Revolver: Rossi or Ruger- $250 or less used. Cheap and reliable.

You can find cheaper stuff, but it will not be reliable and it will only be slightly less expensive. You should never spend less money when it come to protection. The list I compiled has reliable weapons. They are not the best, but reliable and cheap.

SKS and a Star BM 9MM.
Both are dirt cheap and extremely reliable.

nd a Star BM 9MM.
Both are dirt cheap and extremely reliable.

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But Star is gone. It's hard enough to get parts now. If you broke a part after a SHTF situation, it'd be a gun-shaped paperweight.

They're fun, but for serious SHTF, I'd go for something you can easily find parts for in nationwide stock.

I'd steer clear of the P64. It's a Polish P64, not a Makarov. Only a Makarov is a Makarov.

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I have a P-64 and have put several hundred rounds through it only one FTF in 300. You are right it is not a Makarov, it is smaller and practically hides in a pocket with a pocket holster. The P-64 is a beast to shoot if you use 100 + grain bullet loads (which it is not designed for). It is very close to a Walther PP/PPK of which some parts can be used.

Here is mine

Under $400: Rifle+440rnds & Revolver+500rnds


Shipping is in the ball park.

This kit is not intended to hold off the zombie hoardes. The rifle will give stand-off & the revo is packable where rifles are not sightly.

7.63x54 is FMJ, .38spl is LSWC

Oh, and the bayonet comes attached to the M44.

I would feel adequately armed with the MN M44 & SW M10.

You can add in a HR single shot 12 guage for $92 from Walmart, and buckshot and slugs can be gotten for a few bucks a box. Sometimes, I see sporting goods chain stores offering combo Rossi 20 guage shotgun and .22LR rifle sets for around 100 on sale.

High Planes Drifter
Sir, Im from New Orleans. Right now Im looking out of my office window at the Superdome. After Katrina there wasnt much concern with concealment for homeowners. When I walked outside to put gas in my generator I always had my M1A on my shoulder; I wanted would-be looters to see that I was armed and not the easiest of targets. The Gaurd stopped and talked to me a lot and actually complimented me on my rifle.

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God bless you and I am glad you are safe.

But its not like I'm making this up.

reference:
Fairfax, VA-The National Rifle Association (NRA ) has filed a motion for contempt against the City of New Orleans, the mayor and the acting chief of police for failure to comply with a temporary restraining order, handed down September 12, 2005, ordering an end to all illegal gun confiscations.


"With looters, rapists and other thugs running rampant in New Orleans, Ray Nagin issued an order to disarm all law-abiding citizens," declared Wayne LaPierre, NRA executive vice president. "With no law enforcement and 911 available, he left the victims vulnerable by stripping away their only means of defending themselves and their loved ones. Now Ray Nagin thinks he's above the law, and that's just wrong."


Attorneys for NRA have exhausted all efforts to cooperate with the defendants, Mayor Nagin and Chief Riley, who repeatedly ignored the court's permanent restraining order against their illegal gun confiscations.


"Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment," said Chris W. Cox, NRA chief lobbyist. "During a federally declared emergency, he abused his power and abandoned the very people he was sworn to protect. He took away the victims' freedom and their basic means of self-defense during an ill-fated and perilous time."


The motion also includes an order that all seized firearms must be returned to their rightful owners.

I always think about this in terms of ammo availability in times of crisis.
I'd say a 9mm handgun
20 or 12 gauge shotty
and a .223 or 7.62 rifle and you can never go wrong with a .22 rifle.

I have been eyeing up another Ruger Security Six lately. The are a little smaller than the GP-100 (kind of like a beefy K-frame) and generally cheaper but still great guns. Picked up my last one on this board for about $250 in excellent condition.
Centerfire rifle would most likely be a Marlin 30-30. It has enough power to kill anything I need to shoot at, the rifle itself is pretty inexpensive, and ammo can be picked up at Walmart. I like the Mosin Nagant for its simplicity and they have certainly endured conditions that most people couldn't but in my experience they are kind of slow to operate. They balance extemely well but don't handle nearly as fast as a lever action and are heavier. If you can order ammo and keep some for them you are OK but it isn't available everywhere like 30-30 is. Even the 7.62x39 that we all thought was always going to be available has been hard to obtain lately. Personally, I think you are better to stick with "American" calibers whenever possible.
If you need a shotgun I would go Mossberg or Remington. I picked up a 18" 12 gauge model 500 last year for about $150 out the door and it has proven to be the best cheap gun I have ever bought. It even shoots cheap wallyworld Remington slugs to point of aim at about 60 yards. Can't beat that.
As much as I like the CZ-452, if you need a .22 to do double duty a 10/22 would do better. Mine is very reliable and has been with minimal maintenance and lots of ammo for about 30 years. Get your hands on a couple 30 rounders and some HV hollow point ammo for it and it can keep someone busy out to 100 yards or so without too much trouble. It is also a good choice to keep shooting fun when you are not using your guns to repel boarders (which is the case a whole lot more of the time).

My first choice for a budget SHTF setup would consist of an SKS and a 4" Ruger Police Service Six, preferably in stainless. Both are extremely rugged and reliable, ammo is reasonably common and not too expensive. Total cost for both guns should be under $400.

If a semiauto rifle isn't an option than second choice IMO would be a used Marlin or Winchester levergun in .30-30.

You obviously want a rifle because it is the most effective weapon for self defense. Shotguns are formidable at close range but ammo is bulky and heavy, and recoil is stout.

The rifle should be equipped with a sling. You don't need a fancy "tactictal" sling, a carry strap will do. There will be instances when you'll need both hands but putting the rifle down is unwise.

Ammo for the SKS can be carried in clips in a Chicom chest pouch, a belt pouch, or in surplus 5.56MM bandoleers. If you get a .30-30 instead, get a butt cuff for some onboard ammo and a belt pouch or belt slide with cartridge loops.

You should have handgun in case you need a portable, concealable weapon. E.g., when you have LEOs who think that the serfs should be disarmed, as in New Orleans post-Katrina.

The handgun needs a holster and sturdy belt to support it. Also some means of carrying a couple reloads, preferably speed loaders in belt pouches. Bianchi Speed Strips are a viable option, especially when you need to carry concealed, because they are flat.

Since for the sake of this topic budget is a concern, a milsurp cleaning kit with a sectional rod and a .30 caliber and 9mm sized bore brushes/jags will allow you to perform preventive maintenance. Cleaning supplies don't need to be fancy, just need some patches cut from an old T-shirt and a CLP. Automatic transmission fluid works quite well and is cheap.

On the .22LR-
I think the 10/22 is under-rated as a survival weapon. It has a greater effective range than your average service pistol. I would hate to be armed only with a pistol and be facing a marksman with a scoped 10/22 at 100m.
One motivated marksman, with a scoped 10/22 and some good ammo could have reaped havoc on those grabasstic, looting thugs in N.O. last year. The Israeli's have used suppressed 10/22s on unruley crowds for years.

If I had to bug with my family, neither my wife or daughter could hold up very well under the weight of one of my ARs and a combat load of ammo for it. On the other hand they do well with my scoped 10/22 and a bunch of ammo and mags for it, between them. When I get where Im going, I would have a good little varmit rifle to augment my AR.

My 10/22 is light enough that I could strap it across the top of a pack if I needed to carry a 2nd weapon myself. I need to outfit it with a folder so it's less cumbersome as a pack gun.

If I had to survive on a poor mans budget, (hell,I am poor)I would definately want a 10/22 to back up my primary rifle or shotgun.