Gus Dddysgrl
Member
Yeah my fav tactic if in need I learned from "Miss Congeniality"
SING:
Solar Plexus
Instep
Nose
Groin
SING:
Solar Plexus
Instep
Nose
Groin
self defense at a close range
- Thread starter Gus Dddysgrl
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kublai9876
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- Apr 17, 2003
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- 2
I'm not sure if I agree with a lot that's been said. I would not recommend carrying a knife at all. I've trained extensively with knives as part of almost 20+ years of martial arts training. Fighting knife on knife is dangerous business even if you know what you are doing. Even if you are able to disable your opponent you still may very well be killed or injured in the process. Fighting knife vs. barehanded is dangerous, as well, if you are in a position where you may lose the knife. As a woman, I would have to consider that your opponent may very well be bigger and stronger than you. Therefore the possibility that you will lose your weapon always exists and must be considered.
Most martial arts will not help you much either. Most karate and taekwondo and gung fu you will find are combat sports and, while fun, are not particularly effective combat arts. Recreational kickboxing is pretty much worthless. While some jujitsu, hapkido, etc. can be effective you will need to devote potentially years of training to get to the point where you will be able to count on these arts as a combat skill. I would not recommend any art that uses wrist locks as these techniques are probably too complicated to use in a combat situation. Combat oriented judo or sambo (a Russian martial art) can be very highly effective but you must have the physical and mental skills to throw your opponent and engage in grappling. Development of these skills, if at all, can take years.
The only unarmed combat system I would recommend can be found in a slim book called "Get Tough" by W.E. Fairbairn, available on Amazon.com. Fairbairn was the father of pretty much all modern military unarmed combat training. He developed the fighting system that was used by the OSS and commando units in WWII (your dad's Marine Corps training was probably derived from Fairbairn). Unlike many modern theorists Fairbairn was an honest-to-god killer who developed his system based on real experience. It has been combat proven ever since and the basics can be learned in a few days.
Most martial arts will not help you much either. Most karate and taekwondo and gung fu you will find are combat sports and, while fun, are not particularly effective combat arts. Recreational kickboxing is pretty much worthless. While some jujitsu, hapkido, etc. can be effective you will need to devote potentially years of training to get to the point where you will be able to count on these arts as a combat skill. I would not recommend any art that uses wrist locks as these techniques are probably too complicated to use in a combat situation. Combat oriented judo or sambo (a Russian martial art) can be very highly effective but you must have the physical and mental skills to throw your opponent and engage in grappling. Development of these skills, if at all, can take years.
The only unarmed combat system I would recommend can be found in a slim book called "Get Tough" by W.E. Fairbairn, available on Amazon.com. Fairbairn was the father of pretty much all modern military unarmed combat training. He developed the fighting system that was used by the OSS and commando units in WWII (your dad's Marine Corps training was probably derived from Fairbairn). Unlike many modern theorists Fairbairn was an honest-to-god killer who developed his system based on real experience. It has been combat proven ever since and the basics can be learned in a few days.
sanchezero
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- Dec 26, 2002
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- 555
I agree with this for most of the reasons listed in kublai's post. Ditto for an asp, samurai sword or a handful of ninja toys.
Gun, pepper and a good light. I carry a knife but its a tool for me, not a weapon. I have extensive training with knives and sticks and I'd much rather use a gun if I couldn't run away.
Again, as a woman (really, any civvie), your entire strategy must be based on disengagement. Fight just enough to beat feet. Consequently, you don't wanna wrestle or 'box' per se. You wanna cause them enough pain that they leave you alone or give you time to get to a position where you can safely use your gun.
Quite true. A really effective way to say "Let me go!" to a grappler involves a knife.
I don't have a knife so that I can get into knife fights. I have one so that I can convince the guy that has been practicing grappling for the last 10 years to let go of me before he breaks something I value.
Since rapes may start off as a grappling attack, I would consider that an especially good skill for a woman to have.
sanchezero
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- Dec 26, 2002
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- 555
Good luck.
Gomez
Member
The arguement that anyone, but particularly a women, should not carry a weapon "because the bad guy will take it from you" is offensive at best. Of course, any time you have something, someone could conceivably take it from you. So your training must reflect this potentiality. Learn to protect and use your tools.
The line of thought is akin to "don't fight back, because you might make him mad." He should be mad. He should be mad at himself because he just had the ever-living tar beaten out of him by someone who he thought was food. He failed in the victim selection process. Not my problem.
The knife fills a very real role in my defensive skillsets. The knife is legal in a lot of places where guns are not. The knife is more approriate in a lot of contact distance scenarios than the gun. And it is a whole lot more concealable than any pistol. It definitely has a place in a "countergrappling" toolbox. And, yes, I have used it against very talented grapplers (from BJJ, Sambo & Judo backgrounds) in FoF exercises, along with bites, elbows and palmheels.
I don't think that anyone is envisaging "West Side Story" duels with knives. As Blaise Loong said, "There are three possible outcomes to a knife fight. You are better than your oppponent. He dies. He is better than you. You die. You are equally matched. You both die. Two out of three times, you're dead!" But, the knife is a great equalizer for someone faced with a larger, stronger opponent or opponents.
The line of thought is akin to "don't fight back, because you might make him mad." He should be mad. He should be mad at himself because he just had the ever-living tar beaten out of him by someone who he thought was food. He failed in the victim selection process. Not my problem.
The knife fills a very real role in my defensive skillsets. The knife is legal in a lot of places where guns are not. The knife is more approriate in a lot of contact distance scenarios than the gun. And it is a whole lot more concealable than any pistol. It definitely has a place in a "countergrappling" toolbox. And, yes, I have used it against very talented grapplers (from BJJ, Sambo & Judo backgrounds) in FoF exercises, along with bites, elbows and palmheels.
I don't think that anyone is envisaging "West Side Story" duels with knives. As Blaise Loong said, "There are three possible outcomes to a knife fight. You are better than your oppponent. He dies. He is better than you. You die. You are equally matched. You both die. Two out of three times, you're dead!" But, the knife is a great equalizer for someone faced with a larger, stronger opponent or opponents.
TheMariner
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- Feb 12, 2003
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- 154
It can't be said too many times
Get a knife... Preferably one with atleast 3" of blade. IDEALLY, the longer teh better but not everyone can get away with carrying daggers...
Train with it! I dislike knives but own two for carry, both atleast 3" or more. IMHO, anything shorter isn't worth it. A knife's length is just more distance between you and the enemy. I like my S&W HRT. Its made as a boot knife but I prefer to clip it diagonally across the small of my back, titling right towards my right hand. If you wear this way, WEAR A COAT... I especially like it because of teh reach and scratch fake...
Also, as already stated, MINDSET.
Get a knife... Preferably one with atleast 3" of blade. IDEALLY, the longer teh better but not everyone can get away with carrying daggers...
Train with it! I dislike knives but own two for carry, both atleast 3" or more. IMHO, anything shorter isn't worth it. A knife's length is just more distance between you and the enemy. I like my S&W HRT. Its made as a boot knife but I prefer to clip it diagonally across the small of my back, titling right towards my right hand. If you wear this way, WEAR A COAT... I especially like it because of teh reach and scratch fake...
Also, as already stated, MINDSET.
I don't think MA are of much real use for women for self defense because of several factors.
To start with the size, strength, and mass difference between them and their likely attackers is going to be huge. Question for people in martial arts, how often have you beat someone that had say AT LEAST 5 inches on you in ht and 30 to 40 lbs of muscle mass??? Or someone that could benchpress more than you could squat??? And could you do that in a skirt and heels?
Also typical shoes and clothing don't lend themselves to effective use of martial art skill.
The other BIG problem that I have run into with training women in general in self defense is that it is very difficult to instill proper mindset in those that haven't been assaulted. They tend to be too "nice". And hand to hand, with or without weapons, is a very brutal event.
IMHO women should focus on a couple of basic release techniques. I have four sisters and taught them just two release techniques the finger peel (grab a finger and break it) and the basic go against thumb (one thumb is weaker than 4 fingers).
The only other hand to hand technique I taught them was if they were sure they could break free safely, pretend to "want to" or fake total fear long enough so they could get close enough tp crush testicals or eyeballs or throat.
Pepper spray or a gun are much better choices because they allow you to stay at a distance and are not dependant on strength.
To start with the size, strength, and mass difference between them and their likely attackers is going to be huge. Question for people in martial arts, how often have you beat someone that had say AT LEAST 5 inches on you in ht and 30 to 40 lbs of muscle mass??? Or someone that could benchpress more than you could squat??? And could you do that in a skirt and heels?
Also typical shoes and clothing don't lend themselves to effective use of martial art skill.
The other BIG problem that I have run into with training women in general in self defense is that it is very difficult to instill proper mindset in those that haven't been assaulted. They tend to be too "nice". And hand to hand, with or without weapons, is a very brutal event.
IMHO women should focus on a couple of basic release techniques. I have four sisters and taught them just two release techniques the finger peel (grab a finger and break it) and the basic go against thumb (one thumb is weaker than 4 fingers).
The only other hand to hand technique I taught them was if they were sure they could break free safely, pretend to "want to" or fake total fear long enough so they could get close enough tp crush testicals or eyeballs or throat.
Pepper spray or a gun are much better choices because they allow you to stay at a distance and are not dependant on strength.
Gus Dddysgrl,
On the issue of unarmed self-defense...
Typically, the average-build man can out-muscle and overpower the average-build woman. I'm not being sexist, and I'm not putting down women.
Can martial arts help? Yes, to an extent. It also depends on the martial art that the woman is studying.
Martial arts such as tae kwon do, karate, kickboxing, and others that are primarily considered striking arts are generally poorly suited to the task of defending a woman against a determined rapist. You simply cannot effectively apply the vast majority of strikes and kicks with a man on top of you while you are in a lying or prone position. Especially if this man is intent on assaulting you.
However, there are several effective combat-oriented Japanese martial arts that are that come from the feudal days of ancient Japan. While generally much more suited for actual self-protection application because of the better use of body movement and positioning, etc., there is a problem here too. These old-style martial arts take a considerable amount of time to become proficient in.
Martial arts. You cannot learn how to paint a masterpiece in one month of painting classes. After one or two months you might be able to paint a pretty detailed flower, but could you paint an entire meadow with a skyline and everything?
Proficiency in effective martial arts is an investment in time, money, patience, blood, and soul.
Effective "down & dirty" self-defense training is another aspect of fighting altogether.
This is my recommendation to you if you want to study a martial art. Look for what they call "Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu" or "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" in your area. Yes, these have become sport-based martial arts with the popularity of competitions, but they specialize in something that not many other martial arts are good for. They do a whole lot of fighting on the ground, which is where you will most likely end up if you are defending yourself from a rapist.
There are tons of "women's self-defense" courses out there, and many of them aren't worth a damn thing. We teach a 21-hour women's self-protection program that took years to develop. Be wary of instructors who do not address the use of the larger muscle groups in the lower-body as opposed to the smaller muscle groups found in the upper-body. Also be wary of programs that do not teach you to issue verbal warnings, or what to do if you are knocked onto your back, pushed into a prone position, or forced into a kneeling position.
I hope this will help you find something you feel comfortable and confident with learning.
On the issue of unarmed self-defense...
Typically, the average-build man can out-muscle and overpower the average-build woman. I'm not being sexist, and I'm not putting down women.
Can martial arts help? Yes, to an extent. It also depends on the martial art that the woman is studying.
Martial arts such as tae kwon do, karate, kickboxing, and others that are primarily considered striking arts are generally poorly suited to the task of defending a woman against a determined rapist. You simply cannot effectively apply the vast majority of strikes and kicks with a man on top of you while you are in a lying or prone position. Especially if this man is intent on assaulting you.
However, there are several effective combat-oriented Japanese martial arts that are that come from the feudal days of ancient Japan. While generally much more suited for actual self-protection application because of the better use of body movement and positioning, etc., there is a problem here too. These old-style martial arts take a considerable amount of time to become proficient in.
Martial arts. You cannot learn how to paint a masterpiece in one month of painting classes. After one or two months you might be able to paint a pretty detailed flower, but could you paint an entire meadow with a skyline and everything?
Proficiency in effective martial arts is an investment in time, money, patience, blood, and soul.
Effective "down & dirty" self-defense training is another aspect of fighting altogether.
This is my recommendation to you if you want to study a martial art. Look for what they call "Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu" or "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" in your area. Yes, these have become sport-based martial arts with the popularity of competitions, but they specialize in something that not many other martial arts are good for. They do a whole lot of fighting on the ground, which is where you will most likely end up if you are defending yourself from a rapist.
There are tons of "women's self-defense" courses out there, and many of them aren't worth a damn thing. We teach a 21-hour women's self-protection program that took years to develop. Be wary of instructors who do not address the use of the larger muscle groups in the lower-body as opposed to the smaller muscle groups found in the upper-body. Also be wary of programs that do not teach you to issue verbal warnings, or what to do if you are knocked onto your back, pushed into a prone position, or forced into a kneeling position.
I hope this will help you find something you feel comfortable and confident with learning.
Mute
Member
Yes, knife fights are extremely dangerous and not something you'd ever want to get into. So is a gunfight. I won't be recommending that women shouldn't carry guns either.
A tool can be used properly or improperly. And in a life or death situation may or may not help you. My motto is, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
As for traditional fighting arts vs. systems like the Fairbairn-Sykes, any system is only as good as the student and the teacher. If you find the right teacher and you dedicate yourself, any fighting form will be better than none. What you need to do is determine your level of dedication and which fighting style best fits your physical make up, temperament and time availabilty.
A tool can be used properly or improperly. And in a life or death situation may or may not help you. My motto is, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
As for traditional fighting arts vs. systems like the Fairbairn-Sykes, any system is only as good as the student and the teacher. If you find the right teacher and you dedicate yourself, any fighting form will be better than none. What you need to do is determine your level of dedication and which fighting style best fits your physical make up, temperament and time availabilty.
Wilhelm
Member
I would say Pepper Spray and a GOOD JKD concepts place are the best things you could have. A good JKD concepts place will teach good effective stand up, knife, stick, and ground systems. It may take a while to learn it all but in the end be worth every second.
Wilhelm
Wilhelm
ShaiVong
Member
Start carrying a sword. Openly. Across your back.
Okay. Bear in mind that my advice is based on what has wandered into my mind from 16 years of growing up in Third World pestholes, many years in Law Enforcement as a patrol or SWAT officer, and two years bouncing bodies at a hip-hop bar claimed by the local versions of East Coast/West Coast gangster idiots.
I don't have any black belts. There are no autographed pictures of Martial Arts Gods on my walls. I've never had a referee making sure that my opponent and I followed the rules, and there is no chance in hell that you're gonna find me inside a cage with one of those monsters on Pay-Per-View.
So, keeping those limitations on my advice in mind, my suggestion is that you find yourself a good Jeet Kun Do school, preferably one affiliated with JKD Concepts.
Do not however, be afraid to look for something else if JKD doesn't "feel right" for you. You won't hurt my feelings.
It is my Humble Opinion, though, that JKD is hard to beat as far as laying a good, solid foundation to base the rest of your training on.
With you being a young lady, I would suggest learning to use your close-in techniques -- elbows and knees -- then moving to your long range kicks and punches, and only after thorough work on the first two ranges should you move on to ground-fighting techniques.
In my experience (and this is only my experience) you should always be prepared to run like a striped-butted ape the first chance you get during an altercation.
Going to the ground with a critter effectively eliminates that option, and leaves you with but two choices: 1) Force the critter to submit; or 2) Lose.
The third option of Running Like Hell beats the other two options hand down.
Also, grappling is only effective in one-on-one fights. Period. Full stop. There is no way that you can fight a second opponent whilst grappling with a critter.
If can guarantee/no doubt in your mind/dead certain that the critter you are face-to-face with is the only one around, by all means double-leg him and choke his lights out. However, if you can't make that guarantee 100%, then stay off the ground.
The grappling uber alles proponents are going to tell you (repeatedly) that "80% of all street fights go to the ground". Well, I'm here to tell you that 98-99% of them start standing up.
Learn to deal with the 99% of fights that start standing up, before you move to the 80% that wind up on the ground.
Hope that helps.
LawDog
I don't have any black belts. There are no autographed pictures of Martial Arts Gods on my walls. I've never had a referee making sure that my opponent and I followed the rules, and there is no chance in hell that you're gonna find me inside a cage with one of those monsters on Pay-Per-View.
So, keeping those limitations on my advice in mind, my suggestion is that you find yourself a good Jeet Kun Do school, preferably one affiliated with JKD Concepts.
Do not however, be afraid to look for something else if JKD doesn't "feel right" for you. You won't hurt my feelings.
It is my Humble Opinion, though, that JKD is hard to beat as far as laying a good, solid foundation to base the rest of your training on.
With you being a young lady, I would suggest learning to use your close-in techniques -- elbows and knees -- then moving to your long range kicks and punches, and only after thorough work on the first two ranges should you move on to ground-fighting techniques.
In my experience (and this is only my experience) you should always be prepared to run like a striped-butted ape the first chance you get during an altercation.
Going to the ground with a critter effectively eliminates that option, and leaves you with but two choices: 1) Force the critter to submit; or 2) Lose.
The third option of Running Like Hell beats the other two options hand down.
Also, grappling is only effective in one-on-one fights. Period. Full stop. There is no way that you can fight a second opponent whilst grappling with a critter.
If can guarantee/no doubt in your mind/dead certain that the critter you are face-to-face with is the only one around, by all means double-leg him and choke his lights out. However, if you can't make that guarantee 100%, then stay off the ground.
The grappling uber alles proponents are going to tell you (repeatedly) that "80% of all street fights go to the ground". Well, I'm here to tell you that 98-99% of them start standing up.
Learn to deal with the 99% of fights that start standing up, before you move to the 80% that wind up on the ground.
Hope that helps.
LawDog
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