SFO Airport Guardsman picture

I noticed someting right away

The picture is sideways, despite being a scanned copy of a newspaper clipping.
I can understand not being able to figure out how to rotate an image on the computer, but come on! Put in the scanner the other way!

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It's stupid and I may not be correct but I don't think any army in the world issues hearing protection. I don't think they ever did. The only hearing protection I ever (never seen any others) saw on a soldier was on MacArther on a battleship (in a video) They didn't even issue hearing protection to artillery men, in all those videos they are covering their ears. Makes no sense.

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12 years ago when I went through Army basic training for the NG everyone was issued a pair of ear plugs even had to wear the little plastic holder on your uniform it was part of the uniform.

2 years later when I went through for the Marine Corps I dont' recall getting any ear plugs

The Military acts in strange ways and always will. I was in th MPs stationed on a "high security" installation back in the mid 60's. When we were on regular assignment we drew a 1911 and a mag with 5 rounds but we were NOT permitted to chamber a round. Two or three times a year they would hold "security drills" and the MPs not on duty were assigned as supplemental troops to secure areas. So far so good, the supplemental trrops were issued M1s and NO ammo, while the regular troops guarding the same building had loaded 1911s and empty M1s. I have not been able to figure it out and I have not been able to get a answer from anyone who would know.
The military is what it is.

It's stupid and I may not be correct but I don't think any army in the world issues hearing protection. I don't think they ever did.

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You are not correct. My father still has a set of the old single flange ones he was issued in the 60s and I have several sets of the triple flange ones I was issued.

As a Army tanker in the 80's we were issued ear plugs and even went thru a medical session to size them for us. The container had a cylinder on it for inserting in ear the correct way. The container was also part of the uniform and if you showed up in formation without one attached to your BDU pocket it was like showing up without a cap.
At times the platoon sgt would check to see if your plugs were actually in the container.

My cousin was in south Florida right after hurricane Andrew with the NG, They got assigned to guard some of the shops that were getting burglarized. They were not issued any ammo, the criminals soon realized this, and 2 guys from his platoon were shot at by a criminal. Well the higher ups realized this might be dangerous so they issued each person in the platoon one mag with 29 blanks and 1 live round! And that is how the military is unfortunately.

Couple of points: Post 9/11, who the heck's idea was it to put NG w/ M-16's in airports? Probably wrong cop and certainly wrong weapon! I don't want anybody cutting loose w/ M-16 in a crowded terminal!

Post Katrina: local NG unit sent to NO. "Don't bring weapons." "We ain't comin'!" "OK, bring your weapons." CO was told to stop convoy when reached city limits and wait for state police!?!? SP arrived. "Follow me, stay close, don't stop for ANY reason! You'll draw fire!" 65mph the rest of the way in. CO said "I'd rather go back to the 'sandbox'."

If you put a man on guard duty with weapon and no ammo, what happens if he gets shot? I'd be exploring possibility of wrongful death suit. I've heard of a bank paying up big-time after they disarmed security and subsequently had a guard killed.

Stay safe.
Bob

First,

SOME California Guard units DO have state law enforcement authority. Posse Comitatus applies only when federalized (to the extent Posse Comitatus means anything anymore). In the 1992 Rodney King riots, I worked alongside a Kali Guard MP battalion that carried limited California commissions. The unit had some degree of POST training, although how much or to what certification level I don't recall.

Go back to the thrilling days of yesteryear (post 9/11), when we had Guard troops at most major airports. I don't recall seeing ANY of them with mags in the rifles. I did see mags in the pistols some carried, but have no idea if they were loaded.

I was there, post 9-11, in more than one airport, as National Guard. The M16s and M9s were all carried with fully loaded magazines in place.
As for police powers, we we activated post 9-11 by the various state governors, at the request of the President. We were not under Federal orders, but state orders. Therefore, we were classed as level 3 Peace Officers, in my state, and had arrest/detention authority as granted by the state.

ORAG said:

The National Guard can't play police due to the Posse Comitatus Act but don't bet your life they can't assist in maintaining law and order, preserve property and protect life and limb.

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I don't think Posse Comitatus enters into the equation when they are acting under State authority. That would apply only when they are Federalized.

I suspect we are seeing a posed picture.

I guess some people are more worried about the little error and not the point of the pic.

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Everyone else already figured it out, and I sure didn't know why there was no magazine, so i was jest teasin ya'!

Maybe he has a loaded magazine or three in his pockets?

Hearing Protection

Most of the Guard Soldiers I served with had their unit crest on their ear plug case and that was strung through a button hole. Since about 1970, it has been pretty standard for Soldiers to use either the flange ear plug or the Foam, disposible one's. It is possible that it is under his M-16 or as usual, he forgot it. (Have one Soldier out of Uniform and that is always the one that has his picture taken) Yes, State duty will often be used by the Feds through a Money transfer and then Posse Commitatus does not apply. There have been a lot of Guardsmen on State Active Duty (SAD) pad for by Federal Funds carrying weapons and ammo doing surveillance of Drug growing plots.

The same here. Maybe he has the mags on the jacket but i dont think so, since i dont see any pistol at all as second gun. He stil could have 1 single shot chambered but i again dont think so. I think its pretty normal on the army of tons of countries not to give then real live ammo, not to everyone at least. I dont know why. Lack of funds??? Security so they dont start shooting each other if a fight goes off?

That said, the California NG is the only one in the country (that I'm aware of) that had their soldiers w/o ammo at their airports. Their supervising officers had it all locked up and if there was an emergency, had to get it and distribute it.

I don't know what state you're in, but I'm a Cal Guardsman, and the amount of ammo that the troops had amazed me. I was -not- expecting a full basic load.

Then again, they also had a couple of NDs. At least two at SFO.

NTM

Wierd. I've been told by two different guys that are in the Guard who also work as unarmed security officers that the way the pay works out, they actually get paid more to stand around a construction site in their security guard uniforms than they do to stand around the airport in thier Guard uniforms. I'm not sure I believe it, but if it's true, that's kind sad.

I worked in an avionics shop in the air force in the 70's we were issued ear protection - yellow foam ear plugs and the kind shooters use that cup over the ears - lots of those kind got "taken home" & used at the range.

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I'm former weapons. Yes, I was issued plugs, heck, we had a box of them you could just grab from. A bit different than a soldier with a gun though.

Wierd. I've been told by two different guys that are in the Guard who also work as unarmed security officers that the way the pay works out, they actually get paid more to stand around a construction site in their security guard uniforms than they do to stand around the airport in thier Guard uniforms. I'm not sure I believe it, but if it's true, that's kind sad.

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In terms of pure financial compensation, he's probably right. When you throw in all the other benefits of Guard membership from education through the PX priviliges, I wouldn't be so sure.

Personally, the Army pays me more when I'm on full-time status than my IT position here in California, but not by much.

NTM

Retirement

At the age of 60, the Guard pays a retirement based on the number of days of duty you have performed and the highest grade held. This is above the retirement you get from Social Security. As a 59 year old, I am just waiting for the $ and the Medical Coverage (Tricare) to roll in. With three years of Active Duty and over 25 years of Guard duty I am looking for over a grand a month. Put that in your part time job and smoke it!

I can tell you it is maddening to try to guard something without bullets for your M-16. In the mid 80's we guarded facilities at Fort Hood and a pick handle was the actual weapon We had to stand guard mount with our unloaded M-16 plus the pick handle. Plus about the hearing protection, I was always real careful when shooting or riding airplanes/helicopters but I never realized how loud driving an HMMV in Iraq could be with out doors on. Now I have a terrible ringing in my ears that will never stop. Bottom line wear them or suffer.

Peyton

I think its pretty normal on the army of tons of countries not to give then real live ammo, not to everyone at least.

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After a couple of sentries in the Taiwan Army blew their brains out, top brass came up with the brilliant idea of issuing an empty rifle to one guard and live ammo to his backup. Another approach was to have one carry M16 and the other M14, but swap the magazines they carry. :banghead:

Latest SOP is to insert a mag loaded with 2 blank cartridges on top, followed by FMJ. They still need to pull the charging handle twice to start shooting for real.

Mr. NG has no hearing protection.

After a few planes take off behind him, he won't be able to hear anything.

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Skidmark, both of his ears are obscured in that photo, he could very possibly have foamies in.

As for no ammo, even as a Marine, I have stood duty plenty of times on American soil with an M16A2 with no ammo. Unit commanders are very concerned with covering their assets, so to speak, NDs are more likely than an actual attack, and the MPs/PMO/SPs/SFs carry live ammo anyway. After 9-11, every armed post I stood was with ammo, however.

As for ear protection, there are several NSNs for foamies, and ear protectors. All five branches have plenty of access to them if S-3/G-3 is on the ball. As a Marine working in Naval Aviation, they were ubiquitous, literally availible in nearly every room. .Gov isn't trying to pay any VA bennies for hearing loss.