The after reload sizeing die ?

I believe you are looking for a Lee "factory crimp die" they size a final time and crimp in the same operation. I`m not a fan but 95% of the rest of this site love `em. They will fit RCBS. Most reloading equipment- press & dies- is std in thread size and will interchange.

Lee Factory Crimp Die

+1 Lee FC die--takes all the guess work out of crimping, especially for 9mm and 45 ACP and you will never have to worry about a bulged case again because of case length variation going through a bullet seating die. The post sizing, or sizing after the round is loaded feature, guarantees the round will chamber. 100 %

You can add one to final stage of any press with a spot for it or if you load single stage use it as the last step. Most of the calibers are less than $20.

benedict1 +1 Lee FC die--takes all the guess work out of crimping, especially for 9mm and 45 ACP and you will never have to worry about a bulged case again

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Is that a fact though? I have found that if I wind my FCD in 9mm to low, I get a deformed case. It makes the round look like a bottle necked cartridge.

Make sure we are talking about a Lee Factory Crimp Die--not just a bullet seating die that also crimps. They are different. I don't mean to insult your intelligence but I saw you were a new member and don't know how recently you started reloading--Forgive me, I don't mean to sound rude, just trying to be real clear about what die we are discussing.

If the die is set properly, per the instructions that come with it, I can't see how a bulge can occur because of how it's designed.

Here are the directions straight out of the latest instructions with a Lee DeLuxe Pistol Die Set--

"Screw in the die until it just touches the shell holder and back out on the adjusting screw. With the loaded round in the die, turn the adjusting screw in until you can just feel it touch the case mouth. Then move the cartridge out of the die slightly and screw the adjusting screw in 1/2 turn for a light crimp and one full turn for a heavy crimp. You can adjust for even greater crimp and never have to worry about buckling the case as with conventional crimpers. The cased is sized as it enters the die and again as it is pulled out of the die.

In "Modern Reloading" by Richard Lee, 2nd Ed. he gives more information about why they developed this die and what it does--See p. 78--the quote below comes from there.

"Competitive shooters and hunters need ammunition that's dependable. The single operation in the reloading process that damages the most ammunition is the crimp operation. Attempting to crimp too much either buckles the case or forms a slight bulge just behind the crimp. Either way the round will not chamber.
The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die overcomes these problems. It cannot bulge the case and it post sizes the case just in case a oversize bullet or thick case wall makes the cartridge over maximum cartridge size. It requires an extra operation. If you are loading on the Lee Load-Master or four hole Turret Press, it's no problem, because there is a station for the Factory Crimp Die. This die allows unlimited crimp with never a chance of a bulged case because it will be ironed out as it is extracted. The carbide sizer is slightly under minimum chamber dimension, so the rounds will fit any standard chamber but will not squeeze the bullet within the case. It's priced so low that it's unlikely anyone else will produce one like it.


If you still have a problem call Lee and explain it to the tech--maybe they know something about die failure or defective dies that I have no experience with.

Are the cases from a Glock? I get a lot of range brass shot in Glocks and they all have a bulge near the base after firing that has to go in the very first resizing step. I use Lee dies exclusively and have had zero problems with chambering of any caliber, as I said above. The Glock brass really gets squeezed in that first resizing station. But by the time they are primed, charged, bullet seated with initial crimp and then Factory Die crimped, they fit my 9mm Kimber with no problem, and shoot well.

The carbide sizer is slightly under minimum chamber dimension, so the rounds will fit any standard chamber but will not squeeze the bullet within the case.

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I agree if a cartridge is sized UNDER min chamber dimention it should fit any chamber. Most sizers though are under size as brass springs back and needs to be sized down past the point we want it to remain. The standard Lee, RCBS, Dillion sizer will do the same thing to an empty case. The part I disagree with is the fact a bullet in a case being resized isn`t effected. The case wall is already in contact with the bullet and now it is being sized PAST the min case dimention. The case wall then has to compress the bullet and either swag a lead bullet or possibly loosen a jacket from a core on std jacketed bullets. At the least it has to effect accuracy.......

All speculation on my part.

I`ve been loading for close to 40 yrs and have never picked up, let alone used a Lee FCD. Never had the need. I may be missing something others have found though as I don`t load 10,000 rd/yr and use only cases from ammo fired in my pistol or new ones in my loads. They have always fit though if I didn`t over crimp, ect...

I will quit posting on this subject now and let the rest of you flame me

Started loading in 1960, when Lee was just starting. I didn’t pay any attention to their products until the 80’s. I now own quite a few of their products, and find them to be excellent. I don’t care for their lower priced presses. I don’t know the current statistics, but it used to be that a high percentage of bench rest shooters used the Lee factory crimp die.

Ol' Joe--You'll have to go to the guy who invented it!

"Quote:
The carbide sizer is slightly under minimum chamber dimension, so the rounds will fit any standard chamber but will not squeeze the bullet within the case."

Sorry, I didn't close the quotes on the text from Modern Reloading.

This is not my contention--it is the flat statement of fact from the guy who invented the Factory Crimp Die, Richard Lee. He knows more about the subject than I will ever know and if you want to challenge someone on whether the bullet is swaged or pinched with the die set too low, you'll have to contact him, or the current CEO, his son John Lee, or the Tech support people at Lee.

I have measured before and after with my calipers and when the die is set as per the instructions above the case dimension is the same as factory ammo within .001. Actually, I have pushed it another half turn and not much else happens--any further crimping is too small for my measuring tool. I am sure if you try to abuse the situation by doing something rediculous, you can swage/tear/destroy the case, as you can with most any die improperly set.

You are correct in your assumption that you can load ammo without this die and stop at the bullet seating/crimping die, if that die is correctly set, and shoot to your heart's content. Thousands of people do it all the time. If you are using the brass from your own pistol, as you are, things should be just fine.

Not trying to start a big argument--just get the facts out and then people can use their own experience to verify what actually happens.

Good shooting to you, Ol' Joe!

I may be in the minority here but IMHO the FCD fixes problems that are better solved elsewhere. Sure, if you don't get the case sized quite right or maybe not enough crimp the FCD will beat it back into spec but why not just fix the problem instead of the symptoms. FWIW, I actually own a FCD and actually used it a time or two before I decided to just go ahead and adjust my dies correctly.

Ol' Joe--You'll have to go to the guy who invented it!

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I agree, and from the guys who make bullets........

from Speers web site.

Q.
I bought a reloading die set and there’s a note with the dies that says something like, “Speer does not recommend using their bullets with these dies.” What’s the deal?

A.
Speer never made such a broad recommendation. Speer’s recommendation is: Do not apply a crimp to any bullet that does not have a crimp groove. The die company in question markets a die to produce a “factory crimp” and recommends it be used on any bullet. Speer’s tests, and those by another bullet maker and an independent gun writer, show that crimping a bullet that doesn’t have a crimp groove degrades group size by an average of 40 percent. Other than the crimp die, we have no problem with our bullets in that firm’s dies, although our preference is for RCBS® products.
We express ours thanks to the die maker for allowing us to make contact with so many new SPEER customers.

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We can do this forever. As I said earier, I know most on this board really like this die, I just happen to be a non-believer and feeling a bit like the devils advocate today.
The die does do very good crimps and resizes as advertized. I just have funny feelings about them. I`ll drop this thread now.
Good Shootin` and may all your ammo be safe!

And this from Lee's FAQ: They recommend RCBS - is that any surprise based on the fact they are both owned by the same company?


Speer Warning on Factory Crimp die

A few years back Speer ran some advertisements on the Factory crimp die, making claims that it destroyed accuracy, ruined bullets, etc. No other bullet manufacturer has a problem with it. Therefore, we included the warning in our instructions.

There is no safety issue in using Speer bullets with the Factory Crimp Die.

No flame joe, just a clarification to others that MAY be reading this.

There are 3 distinct different Lee Factory Crimp Dies. The FCD for straight wall AUTO pistols is a taper crimper. The FCD for revolver ammo is a roll crimper. The FCD for bottle neck pistol AND rifle cases is collet crimper that does not resize the rest of the shell.

Your excerpt from the war between lee and speer, concerns the bottle neck FCD. Speer's concern is that the collet comming at the neck from the sides, deforms the bullet. I can see their logic, but if their bullets are so damn fragile that they can't take a small grove in their side, then we'd better look elsewhere for a bullet supplier!

Your facts are dead on - I've taken several attempts at trying to clarify what you just did with one short paragraph.

djd

Snuffy, You are correct. The LFCD for bottle neck cases does Not size the case. I have a LFCD for several rifle calibers and the body of the die does Not contact the brass enough to size it at all.

I gotta say I generally don't use factory crimp dies, but there are two exceptions.
One exception is for 357sig, you'd have to see the setup, it really helps.
Another exception is loading lead bullets or bullets that are oversize.
Say you want to load 9mm lead.
You are going to get creases occasionally, and the factory crimp die will iron them out.
But if you're loading jacketed, I'd like to recommend a more expensive, but more elegant route.
The EGW or lee custom undersize die.
The EGW die starts out as a lee die (Maybe lee modified it, maybe EGW did, but the effect is the same.) and it sizes .001 smaller and it also sizes farther down.
The main purpose is creating more neck tension to hold the bullet in place.
I'd also recommend the redding competition seater die.
Once you use one, you will know why I recommend it so highly. It's spring loaded, very precise tool which seats using the ogive of the bullet, not the tip, and it has a very convenient micrometer depth adjustment on top that is 100% repeatable.
Yeah it's pricey, but it really makes gome great ammo, the seating depths are a LOT more consistant, the bullets are seated with less effort, no gilding metal is shaved off, and they are centered in the neck, not just shoved in the case mouth.
Did I mention that it speeds up your rate of production since the bullets are less likely to jam up in the seater die?

Here is a pic you can see that the cartridge on the right has a bottle neck appearance.

I am using a Lee FCD in 9mm, its a good die, all I'm saying is that it can be misadjusted as the above picture shows.

I agree with the guys saying that the straight-wall Lee carbide factory crimp dies treats the symptoms of a problem that should be solved elsewhere. I have tried the Lee CFCD in 45 colt and found it's results inferior to the crimp I get from my Hornady seating die, while I seat the bullet. And it is one less step in my single stage reloading regimen.

Where the Lee CFCD seems to be the most popular is with guys reloading range-pickup brass on a progressive press, and not taking the time to trim their brass to consistent lengths. That and the fact that Dillon would rather sell them a cheaper to build seating die that can't crimp, while charging extra for an unnecessary separate crimp die, than take the time to explain to their customers how to adjust a conventional seating die to crimp at the same time. Instead, they just spread fear, uncertainty, and dread about trying to seat and crimp in one operation. A whole generation of reloaders was successfully crimping while seating long before Dillon started telling us that it cannot be done.

Collet crimping FCD dies for bottleneck cases are a whole 'nother matter, and are a wonderful addition to a reloading arsenal, since they can effectively provide a better crimp in cartridges with very short necks (like 357 sig) that really need a stronger crimp than is generally achievable while seating.

Andy

Let's separate all this a bit--we get a bunch of things mixed--nobody here started out talking about rifle cases. Leave them be.

Contention based on hard evidence--if you are loading a tapered case that goes into a semi-auto the Lee FC Die does a superior job of getting that taper crimp right.

And, who among us is out there trimming 9 mm brass? At the rate we all shoot the stuff if you tirmmed and reloaded you'd need a couple of elves running a 1050 to get it all done in time while you were feeding them carefully trimmed, chamferred and deburred cases. This is all pretty much still rifle talk where it is critical.

For those of you who are skilled enough to set the bullet seating/crimping dies to get the job done right and who keep cases pretty much segegated by length, or trim them to length, have at it--

But don't discourage a new loader who could be greatly helped by using the FC die, which takes ALL the guesswork out of the process.

And, I have said before, anybody can set dies up so they will ruin anything!!! Why would you want to do that?? Follow the instructions that the inventor/manufacturer gave you and get on with it.

How you get that bulge is immaterial--you don't have to have it.

With all this, I retire from this thread. There isn't a heckuva' lot more to be said, except Good Night and Good Shooting.