Green Lantern
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- Joined
- Aug 16, 2006
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- 1,665
I think it's more fun to aruge the "militia" point, but only if it's a male age 17-45. Especually if he's also a pacifist!
a male age 17-45
You are probably thinking of George Mason, who is frequently cited as saying:Who said when asked, the the militia were, with the exception of a few public officials, the whole of the people?
There is no such thing as a "collective" right, at least not in the way people thought of rights in 1788.
Some of the best books about rights, which take text and context seriously but still are very modern, are by Akhil Amar Reed
Sort of ... the Preamble says that we the people established and ordained a constitution, but there is no individual right to do such a thing. Maybe in a monarchy an individual (the King) would have a (divine) right to establish and ordain a Constitution, but in a free State it is a collective right of the people. A collective right is different from an individual right.Your definition of a collective right is no different then the definition of an individual right - the group "we, the people", is the same as the individuals making up that group. Yes the people have the right to bear arms, I am one of the people, so I have that right.
I don't see what's contrary about it. The States were to maintain control of the militia so that they might remain free States. The Federalist Papers explained that there was no reason to fear that the US might take over the militia, and that the States would remain in control. I am not seeing how the Federalist Papers are contrary to our founding.The "collective rights" theory is based on a misinterprtation of the Second Amendment in protecting only the historical right of States to form well regulated militias, which is obviously totally contrary to all intent displayed by the Founders' actions, histories, experiences AND words.
Again, the question is not whether or not the right exists, the question is about the federal protection of a right, and if any such protection comes from the Second Amendment.MY right is dependent on my being one of the people, NOT on my being a member of any type of group militia - regulated or otherwise. Therefore the right is mine - and is inherent, inalienable, etc.
Of course an individual has a right to try to influence government, but no individual has a right to destroy the government of your State and erect a new government, that is a collective right of the people of your State.Here's why I think that: if only one person believed the government was a tyranny, that one person would still have the right to try to alter or abolish the government.
Sort of ... the Preamble says that we the people established and ordained a constitution, but there is no individual right to do such a thing. Maybe in a monarchy an individual (the King) would have a (divine) right to establish and ordain a Constitution, but in a free State it is a collective right of the people. A collective right is different from an individual right.
Sort of ... the Preamble says that we the people established and ordained a constitution, but there is no individual right to do such a thing. Maybe in a monarchy an individual (the King) would have a (divine) right to establish and ordain a Constitution, but in a free State it is a collective right of the people. A collective right is different from an individual right.
I don't see what's contrary about it. The States were to maintain control of the militia so that they might remain free States. The Federalist Papers explained that there was no reason to fear that the US might take over the militia, and that the States would remain in control. I am not seeing how the Federalist Papers are contrary to our founding.
He didn't care about a BOR, because he knew (or thought), like many others, that in listing certain rights that were so obvious and inherent, it would leave others not mentioned open to infringment. The anti-federalists, and also another Federalist author Madison, wanted a Bill of Rights to list rights inherent in the people, to keep the federal government from usurping those rights.