Heller + Miller = Bye bye Hughes Amendment

[#shooter]

Please disregard if this has been discussed, I must have missed it.

If the SCOTUS confirms in Heller that the 2A is an individual right and that Miller determined that military weapons are “protected arms” does that mean the 86 ban for new machineguns could be unconstitutional?


One can only hope.

 

[Fly320s]

Definitly maybe.

It all depends on the breadth of the ruling. It could be, "Yes the 2nd A = individual rights, BUT we believe that some laws are not infringement...yada, yada, yada.

 

[Jim Watson]

As I understand it, a court decision finding a law unconstitutional in one case does not automatically repeal every law of the same effect everywhere. Somebody will have to sue against every single anti-gun law and cite Heller as a precedent, even assuming it goes our way.

But I am not a lawyer. Maybe one will come along.

 

[LawBot5000]

Often they will just stop prosecuting after the Court rules on it. Florida still has all of its old anti-sodomy laws on the books despite the fact that they would be struck down in a second if anyone was arrested under them.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I hope so. The NFA, GCA, etc were bad but the Hughes amendment was especially heinous.

Somebody will have to sue against every single anti-gun law and cite Heller as a precedent, even assuming it goes our way.

If the SCOTUS rules on the side of freedom hopefully one of the pro-gun organizations will find some killer lawyers and set up one heck of a nationwide legal fund and start going after the most restrictive laws first. I'd contribute all I could to it.

 

[RoadkingLarry]

...And we'll all be drinking that free bubble-up and eatin' that rainbow stew....

 

[joab]

Florida still has all of its old anti-sodomy laws on the books despite the fact that they would be struck down in a second if anyone was arrested under them

Georgia also has those laws.
One of the news show did a report on a man serving time in a Ga state prison for performing oral sex on his wife

My prediction is a limited victory or a total loss for our side

 

[Cosmoline]

If the Court goes for an individual rights approach, Miller is mostly toast anyway. The distinction between "miltiary" and "non military" arms is likely to be eliminated in favor of a privacy-based analysis.

 

[romma]

If ourside(freedom lovers) win this, then I hope someone sues for disbanding the registry pronto!!

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

If ourside(freedom lovers) win this, then I hope someone sues for disbanding the registry pronto!!

On the contrary, I hope they take their time like the Parker/Heller plaintiffs and make sure it gets done right. Nice, respectable plaintiffs. Good preparation. I'd rather wait for success than get disappointment in a hurry.

 

[illspirit]

On the contrary, I hope they take their time like the Parker/Heller plaintiffs and make sure it gets done right. Nice, respectable plaintiffs. Good preparation. I'd rather wait for success than get disappointment in a hurry.

On the, umm, contra-contrary, if it takes too long for us to find a good plantiff, we may end up with Miller Part 2 and a crack dealer as a poster boy. If SCOTUS rules in favor of an individual right, there will no doubt be tons of criminal defense lawyers trying to apply the ruling to their clients. Even if none of them make it all the way to the Supreme Court, it will only take one or two Circuit Court rulings claiming a machine gun ban is "reasonable" to impede our progress by giving SCOTUS an easy way to deny cert.

 

[iiibdsiil]

I hate to say it, but I think that anything that we think of has already been or will be thought of by SCOTUS. Whatever they rule on this will be very nicely worded to not change anything too much, I'm sure.

 

[Axctal]

Get a few buddies and organize militia in your neighbourhood.
Request select-fire rifles. Get denied.
--> SCOTUS

 

[yesit'sloaded]

Even better. Do it on an ATF form 5 and list the reason as "for a well regulated militia". They deny that and it is blatantly unconstitutional.

 

[rugerdude]

We need to remember that all but one of the (six?) plaintiffs in the Heller case were ignored because they didn't have good enough standing.

I say a group of people trying to organize a militia and being turned down FA ownership would be a good way to challenge the law if we get a good and open (the ruling does us no good if they narrow it too much) ruling in the Heller case.

However, SCOTUS did suprise me when they redefined the question in the sweeping terms of the entire meaning of the 2nd ammendment, and not just a handgun ban in D.C..

There may be hope, but honestly, they know the implications of declaring the RKBA an absolute individual right, and many GUN owners don't like the idea of people with full-auto's. I am not one of those people .

 

[#shooter]

Even better. Do it on an ATF form 5 and list the reason as "for a well regulated militia". They deny that and it is blatantly unconstitutional.

I wonder how many members here are in a militia?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

On the, umm, contra-contrary, if it takes too long for us to find a good plantiff, we may end up with Miller Part 2 and a crack dealer as a poster boy. If SCOTUS rules in favor of an individual right, there will no doubt be tons of criminal defense lawyers trying to apply the ruling to their clients.

How many crack dealers/criminals are bringing a 922(o) challenge? Not many would be my guess since they would first have to establish an ability to legally own firearms before they could complain about being unable to register them. We have plenty of time to build a good 922(o) case and be choosy on plaintiffs - in fact, it is one of the few areas of Second Amendment law where we may have that luxury.

Get a few buddies and organize militia in your neighbourhood.

You might want to look at the original and current Militia acts, which called for state-appointed officers in charge of the militia (both organized and unorganized). Unless one of your few buddies is an officer in the state militia, you might have trouble making the connection by just calling yourselves a militia.

Otherwise your local street gang is just as much a miltia as you and your neighborhood buddies.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

I am confident 922o will be overturned, I also am sure SCOTUS will go good they have to understand that if they rule bad and the anti's ban all that this county would fall apart day 1 of the confiscations.

 

[jerkface11]

Yeah we were all sure they'd rule in favor of property rights too.

 

[ScottsGT]

Even better. Do it on an ATF form 5 and list the reason as "for a well regulated militia". They deny that and it is blatantly unconstitutional.

Form 4 maybe? I just filled one out for a supressor.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I think form 5 is the one for LEO/Military (Militia in this case)
I agree with Bartholomew's comment on that though. They might question that you are well regulated and ensuring the security of the state.

 

[jeff-10]

Its too bad it won't overturn the import ban as I believe that is an executive order. I find it odd that the 86 machine gun ban has a greater chance of being repealed/nullified than the 89 import ban. I remember all the naysayers who believed the 94 AWB would never sunset.

 

[ilbob]

I think the chances are very slim that the court will rule on anything other than the very narrow question the court said is at issue.

It appears to me by the way they phrased the question at issue that they will rule there are some individual 2A rights, and most likely it seems they will rule the DC laws violate those rights. My guess is they kick it back to a lower court for specifics. But, who knows.

 

[Crunker1337]

Form V is the one that gives the BATFE total discretion over who gets post-'86 no-tax machineguns. They can, theoretically, approve Form Vs whenever they feel like it.
As for the question regarding who's in a militia, I will be on Thursday. I'm sure a significant portion of THR, and the US population in general, is unknowingly responsible for the security of this country.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.shtml

To answer the original question, I sincerely hope that the MG Ban is repealed. Imagine the partying that would take place if it was.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Imagine the partying that would take place if it was.

Knobb creek shoots would have to be held every Saturday