Everyone Wants to be a Gunsmith

re gunsmithing

If you already have a machining background you have half the battle won.. like machining, gunsmithing is a learned craft.. I would enroll yourself in some gunsmithing classes offered by for instance Cylinder and Slide ect...Get knowlege from someone to show you the correct way. Another way is online videos offered by Wilson and a few other gunsmiths... then there's the other aspect...craftsmanship... a gun might look like a Polish lawmower but still shoot 1" groups at 25 yards.. Craftsmanship is paramount when doing things for customers and friends...

Do you want to be a gunsmith, or just a guy who tinkers with guns he happens to like and try to get someone to pay you for it?

I have posted here a number of times on the subject, and don't retract anything I have said. Gunsmithing is not magic; it is not becoming a priest or dedicating your life to some higher goal. It is a job and, if you are independent, a business.

At one time, I did a lot of my own car work, but I was no professional, and I knew enough to not mess with 4-barrel Holley carbs or automatic transmissions, which meant I was not a "real" mechanic. There is no easy way to learn to rebuild a transmission. You can read about it, you can go on-line, but there is no way I will let you touch mine unless you are a full time pro and know what you are doing. Same with guns, there is no shortcut.

You want some instant education. OK. So what do you do now? Did you just walk into that job with no training and learn the work by magic? If you did, you are lucky. Or did learning take months out of your life? Most of us have to study and work a while before we can call ourselves pros, whether as gunsmiths or communications computer system analysts (my "day job").

Easy tinkering jobs and parts swapping just can't make enough money, and that is the name of the game unless you just want to do simple jobs for your buddies, for free, a losing proposition all the way around. If you are going to call yourself a gunsmith, you need to know how to install a barrel on a Mauser, not just how to file on an M1911 safety.

At a minimum, take a machinist course (some community colleges have them), plus small business courses. I definitely recommend a gunsmith school; the idea of learning by video or books is nice, but doesn't work.

As to money, I agree that few gunsmiths become rich or move in the same circles as Bill Gates. But good ones are often quite well off and enjoy a comfortable life style. (Some who are very well off enjoy telling how bad they are doing, but that is another story.) Again, you need to know how to run a business, not just replace recoil springs.

Jim

I don't mean to be nasty, but do you really think you can make a business out of working on one or two platforms? You can do that only if you go national, and there is plenty of competition for that kind of work. Sure you can build a reputation over time, but you will have to lay in a lot of MRE's to let you reach that point.

IMHO, what is badly needed are local gunsmiths, the GP's as it were, who can do most gunsmith jobs and recommend, or send the work to, specialists for the others.

Jim

IMHO, what is badly needed are local gunsmiths, the GP's as it were, who can do most gunsmith jobs and recommend, or send the work to, specialists for the others.

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Amen, Brother Jim. It's also an excellent approach for a part timer who is competent at what he does, knows what he can't do and shouldn't attempt, puts in the time needed to do the work with a quick turnaround time, and businesslike enough to charge like a Mr. Fixit instead of a full house specialist. If he conducts his parttime business that way, he should be able to make substantial spending money and quickly get to the point where he helps other people to do the same--which is a good thing, because that way he reduces pressure on himself while helping to grow gun ownership in his area.

gunsmith

just a suggestion

I have owned and operated a gunsmithing business for 20 years, then went to work for the RCMP as an armouer.

It would far more cost effective to have a professional service your firearms for you.When I say professional I mean some one running a business and has the reputation for the type of work you want done.

It is shade tree gunsmiths who make it extremely difficult for the "profession gunsmith" trying to make it one their own.

Gunsmith enjoy doing the easy jobs just as much as the difficult ones and it certainly helps the finances when we can draw an easy job.

If gunsmiths cannot make a livlely hood from their work they will not be there to service fireams.

So don't complain when ther is no one in your area to do the work you need.

There got that off my chest-- just a little rant

One part of the problem is the cost of setting up. A file, a stone, and a screwdriver just won't do any more.

Grab a Brownells catalog and check out the prices on chambering reamers, headspace gauges (yes, you need them for 1911 work), and even good files and drill bits. You need a good quality drill press and a good lathe. A miller might wait, but you will eventually want one. You CANNOT use a Dremel tool and a hand drill if you want to see a customer again. You need a good place to work, not your kitchen table. You also really need someone to work the front if you want to get anything done. Gun folks love to chat, bless them, but time spent talking about guns won't get your work done and put food on the table. So let some min wage kid who likes guns take care of the BS for you (yes, I was the kid for a while, as you might have guessed).

And you don't want to work from your house even if zoning laws and BATFE will let you. Having strangers dropping by at all hours is not good for marital bliss. Not to mention the guy who beats on your door at 2AM opening day wanting you to fix the gun he broke last year. That means a shop in a commercial area, which means money for a lease, and whatever changes you need to make (barred windows, for example).

Jim

Mr Kennan is correct about making it a paying job. I have had a very successful gunsmith business for many years one which has sent two daughters to collage and paid off my house and I only had to put in 90 hours a week.
I would suggest you look at an apprenticeship with a qualified gunsmith, I have several working for me right now and I know they plan on opening their own shops in a few years, they work part time after their day jobs and their experience here is on every part of the trade.
As far as machinery goes community collages offer night courses where you have access to lots of equipment.
If you want to do just parts replacement you won't make much money but you might pay for your toys. If you do it as a business get insurance and take business courses. You can find gunsmith shops going out of business and buy fixtures and parts at a reduced price. Word of mouth is very over rated, Build up a fancy gun and take it to the range letting people see your work their is worth more then having a friend recommend you because every body their is into guns. I have a friend that opened a shop in the corner of his local gun shop and works nights and weekends he makes a little money not enough to start his own shop but he has a few nice toys.
Another way to get your hands into the pot is to do bluing, you can make good money doing that and let people know you do gun repair also, both go together and one can make you some money until the other catches up.
Good luck to you I know I have enjoyed nearly every minute of my work

Smithing

Gunsmithing is at the same time, an interesting and a frustrating pursuit...and Jim is spot on. Specialization isn't likely to pay the bills, though many have done so...it's the generalized smiths who most often make a go of it...as a career.

Gunsmithing is an ongoing process. The longer you're at it, the more you evolve and learn. No matter how much experience and knowledge that you have or gain...there's always a different way...a better way...a simpler way...to get the job done.

I've been fortunate enough to be able to be fairly specialized because I had a day job that not only paid the bills, but the money was good eough that I
could indulge myself in what was essentially a hobby-turned-second-job.
I've done much more pro bono work than I've been paid for...by choice...mainly because I just love the 1911 platform and Smith & Wesson revolvers...but also because a stroke of dumb luck that led to an early retirement/financial independence got boring. Like the ol' man told me once:
"If ya sit down...you'll rust."

Dogs, cars and music were my other interests, but a bad back and progressively stiffer fingers and hands made the first painful, and the other difficult...so all there was left was the dogs, and the guns. I was also fortunate enough to have been raised by a tool and die maker, and began my apprenticeship when I was about 6 years old...and had much input from an uncle, who was a retired Navy armorer.

I freely admit that part of the reason that I mess with the 1911s is to demsonstrate that most functional problems that cause people to sell off or trade an otherwise good pistol...aren't as bad as they think. Too many folks
give up on a gun "because it jams" when a very simple adjustment would set things right...most of the time in 30 minutes or less...and often far less.

Finally...I do it because i just like to help whenever a man simply can't afford to pay a pro for what is basically a simple problem...or even a not-so-simple problem...and I'm especially quick to do it when I hear the statement: "I just don't feel right in dumping my problem into someone else's lap."

Noble, yes...I suppose so...but not a recipe for success. So, if you have an eye on gunsmithing for a livlihood...don't fall into that midset. You can ill-afford to do very much pro-bono work. Charge everyone accordingly and don't offer discounts in the shop...except possibly under exceptional circumstances...and very little of even that. What you do at home, behind closed doors is between you and your friends, but when you're on the clock, charge everyone the same. If you do the same job for Joe and Bob...and Joe pays 20 dollars, while it cost Bob 40...and they ever compare notes...you've lost Bob as a customer, and he may spread the word that you play favorites.

Jim! Holley carburetors are another one of my specialties. Rochester Quadrajets were always the ones that gave me a fit.

"You CANNOT use a Dremel tool and a hand drill,,,," LOL
I am a gunsmith and I cannot use a hand drill or a Dremel tool!
I tend to drink too much coffee every now and then and am just too shaky at times to hold either one steady for any length of time!
Give me a drill press and a bench grinder any time I have a choice.

"Rust never sleeps"
Neil Young

Addenum:

15 minute reliability packages!

You should package those up!

Reliability Packages

Chuck quipped:

>15 minute reliability packages!

You should package those up!<
**********

If only. FWIW...I don't do reliability "packages." I address specific problems. No sense in doin' what don't need doin'. Think of it as a ...Tunercratic Oath. "First, do no harm."

Dream, then jump!

Why not? Just go for it. I could write for pages about people who have had a dream or an idea, and went for it. Many fail, but not everyone. It’s a can-do attitude that makes this country the “Greatest on God’s Green Earth –Michael Medved”. I admire the boot-strapper and the home schooled. Specialization is just that, and anyone who tells you that you can’t do it is dragging their own millstone around.

You may find that you have a knack for specialized smithing, and the work may just suit you well. How many small businesses in this country started with a simple idea that was fostered and grown?

Develop your business plan, set goals and stick to it. Look to the gun community for positive influences and support. Those who have the knowledge only better themselves by helping you out, and those who point out your faults simply lack the courage that you are expressing.

Learning is easy. It’s called trial and error. Videos, books and the internet are the town square we all never took advantage of in our youth. School isn’t for everyone. I can tell you that after 20 years in my business, everyone in my employ is college educated and smarter than me, but I sign the checks! You make it, you break it. It works, you’re a hero. Sort of like playing violin. Find a mentor. Have your work double checked by a competent professional.

Be willing to pay the price. If you get to a level of competence yourself within a specific platform, and you acquire the proper licenses and permits that will allow you to be a specialist, then attack the market. Set up a “good” website (very rare), and use handbills at local gunspots. Being a gunsmith is no different than being a baker. You have to learn the craft, and then you have to learn how to sell the doughnuts!

The only things I wish I had gone to school for was to learn business, and how to type.

Everyone Wants to be a Gunsmith
Everyone Wants to be a Guitar player
Everyone Wants to be a photographer
Everyone Wants to be a race car driver
Everyone Wants to be a comedian
Everyone Wants to be President

The only difference is, I am a better amateur gunsmith in 10 years, than I am amateur guitar player in 40 years.

I know professional gunsmiths who send out "barrel work".
I guess they just run the cash register.

And to think, I really wanted to be a Pathologist,,,,,,

I guess I am not really a gunsmith either because our shop sends refinish work to a couple different outsources.
EPA regulations involving walk in retail customers in too close a proximity to the potentially toxic chemical use areas make it more cost effective for us to outsource that part of the business.

I would heartily suggest taking the six months out of your life and lay hands on some machine tools. Besides receiving the necessary foundation for good gunsmithing, you may find yourself aquiring skills that apply dramatically over a wide range of applications. You don't have to be in community college full time, so invest in a night course or three and enjoy something you are interested in.

It doesn't hurt to have a good foundation in a trade!

Not necessarily apropos to gunsmithing, but Tuner's advice about different costs for the same job applies to gun sales as well.

If you sell guns, sell at the MSRP or if you want to sell at less, sell at a percentage of the MSRP. And sell to everyone at the same price. If you have a sale, post signs and have it for everyone.

I have known a couple of gun dealers who gave special prices to their buddies, and said buddies couldn't keep their mouths shut. It doesn't do a business any good for someone to find out you charged him $1000 for the same gun you sold to someone else for $600. Not a happy camper or a repeat customer.

Jim

I guess I am not really a gunsmith either because our shop sends refinish work to a couple different outsources.

Click to expand...

I do also. For the reasons you stated and because you simply can't make any money refinishing firearms unless that's what you specialize in and you do a ton of it.

I can honestly turn 3-4 times the money doing other work in the time it takes for a refinishing job. It's not worth my time.

And I'm one of those "specialists".... I prefer to do custom rifle work period.

I will "fix" the old hunting rifle but not while a guy wants to wait on it.... I'd be broke if I had the time to do that.

I will customize 45s and repair those also...

However, don't bring me your granddaddys 100yr old shot gun and ask me to bebuild it for $100.... Don't bring me your hunting iron a month before hunting season needing it fixed when you busted it during the middle of last hunting season and expect to have it for opening day.

I don't advertise, I work out of a superbly equipped shop behind my house that is fenced in. There's a small sign on the gate that says "gate closed, shop closed. Call and leave a message"

My prices are at the upper end of what most custom smiths charge and I make no apologies or exceptions for them.

My "customer hours" are by appointment only. Otherwise, I'd be spending all my time "visiting" with "potential" customers instead of getting work out the door.

Anyone who rings my home doorbell will be looking elsewhere to get their work done.

90% of my work is shipped to me, not local.

I'm currently 4-5 months "back logged" and that's with working 60-70 hr weeks.

Probably 60-70 of the "smiths" out there are little more than tinkerers.... as long as they don't try to do things outside their proven abilities they do just fine but never make any money to speak of.

Tuner, I love working the Quadrajets. They are great for "sleepers" But then, so are Thermoquads!

I've spent my life training for, working on, and then training others to work on automobiles. I am good at it and I know mechanical concepts, theories and operations. I know the conviction one needs to being the best they can at something.

I understand exactly what the pros are saying about investment in capitol, effort and most importantly, conviction, to grow as a gunsmith. I love the 1911 and some revolvers. Looking through the Brownell's catalog is an education - tooling and equipment is usually an indicator of the level of dedication one needs for a vocation.

I have put out feelers locally about the smithing end of my shooting and firearm interests but approach with knowledge of what a craftsman should be able to produce. I look at what I can do now with my 1911's or revolvers and compare it to some of the my earlier work. I have grown, that's for sure. My early work was good, but not as refined. I am a fast study, but some of what I see from the custom guys is inspiring, to say the least.

So until retirement gets here... I'll just go into 1911 fits when I see all those frames and slides at gun shows. And keep messing wiht those Q-Jets and T-Quads. And a big block Pontiac...

The only thing i want is an owner who likes what he does,has money to invest in tooling and can look beyond next week.(and is on medication to keep the rant's to a minimum).thank you.

My shop makes a living on finishing, Black oxide, cold rust, Parkerizing. The real money comes from the prepping to finish IE the polish. We do make most of our money from machine shops not gunsmiths. Not all smiths know the way to do this.

There seems to be a lot of killjoys in this thread. So what if a smith specializes most don't have the profession as a primary job.