questions: minorities and the 2A have come up a lot lately.

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how to increase the amount of pro-RKBA people in TX

A fact overlooked by some in this thread is that many immigrants only experience with firearms is having them pointed at them- thus they arrive in America fearful of firearms power. I have seen this in my own family, who were driven from their homes by Communists back in Eastern Europe. However, this rememberance of firearms being shoved in your face can work 2 ways

- some immigrants stay deathly afraid of guns, hope to never see them again, and push for gun control-

- others, like some of my other relatives, just revel in their newfound freedom, and buy up as much guns and ammo as they can, so that if the "bad times" come again, they will be able to fight back- I know some fellow immigrants who have huge stockpiles of guns and ammo, because they are worried that the Communists are going to come to America and try to get them- I know this seems paranoid, but that is just what they believe.

I think the key is to do outreach- I have a friend who is the child of an affulent Indian family here at school, and I have slowly been converting her from being a hardcore anti to (hopefully) pro-RKBA. I think the key is to do outreach- each of us need to work to make inroads amongst immigrants, minority groups, etc.

However, having said that, and coming from Chicago to Texas, I notice a change of night and day. I have many Hispanic friends down here, and they are all pro RKBA, even those in the big cities- they just tell me- hey, the gangbangers have guns, why don't we to protect ourselves! Wheras most of the guys in Chicago were anti-RKBA- I think the region that the people immigrate to has a major impact on their view of guns- when some of my family came as sharecroppers to TX, one of their first purchases was a shotgun, to go hunting with. So, basically, in my mind, the key is to hope that the immigrants will come to pro-RKBA states and will get converted/immersed in the shooting culture of the USA, while doing the tough work of outreach in other parts of the country (i.e. Chicago, Detroit, Philly, NYC).

On a side note, my fellow students here in TX were incredulous when I told them about all the gun control BS in IL, they said it would never fly it TX- let us all work so that it never shall.
 
You dont see blacks getting behind conservatives because generally most racists are right-wingers. I DID NOT say right-wingers are racist. I said racists are generally right-wingers. I mean who's ever heard of a liberal Klan member?
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An interesting and largely accurate point of view.

My take on is that, in part, it is hard to convince minorities to vote Republican when Republicans are generally fairly anti-illegal immigration, are generally against affirmative action, have never fielded a minority or woman candidate thats created any buzz (like Clinton, Obama, and even Ferraro), and for a certain sector, view Republicans as being the thiefs in the night when it comes to social programs.

Of course, none of those things in and of themselves are racist. Wanting people to immigrate legally, being against special, arbitrary treatment that disguises itself as "fair", and cutting the fat off of social programs affects more than just the "minority". The problem lies in the more radical right wing treatment of these issues. Here on the High Road, I have heard illegal Mexican immigrants referred to as "cockroachs". I have heard illegal Mexican immigrants broadly painted as drug dealers and murderers. Not on the High Road, but in other venues, I have heard that since Blacks are in jail for killing blacks, it obviously points out that "they" have a problem, implying that "we" must fix it.

Here is the thing: If Republicans call illegal Mexicans cockroachs how long do you think it is going to be before perfectly legal Mexican-Americans take umbrage to that? About .00001 seconds, thats how long. If you say that blacks kill blacks because "they" have a problem, how long do you think it's going to take before blacks really do have a problem with "us"? About .00001 seconds, thats how long. In some cases, I firmly believe that being a bigot is the cause of those types of comments, no matter how well argued they are. In other cases, I think it's people not thinking about what they say before they open thier mouths. Regardless of which standpoint it is, it is plainly obvious that those sorts of comments aren't particularly welcoming. Freedom of speech? Yes! You have the right to say those things. In fact, you even have the right to be a racist if you want to. The ACLU has famously defended racist groups. However, as much as you have that right, people affected by those sorts of comments have the right to vote for whom they choose, for whatever reasons they choose. If I were a first generation Mexican-American, I would likely not vote for a party that has members who would call my people a cockroach, even in light of the fact that those people are referring to illegal immigrants, not American citizens.

The fact is, I am a Republican, and I am proud of it. I do not support the radical right wingers, and likely never will. In all facets of life, extremism is bad, in my opinion.
 
One of the major problems that no one has mentioned is that any time a right leaning individual makes any statement that could be considered in the least bit offensive then the Main Stream Media puts it out onto the airwaves and saturates the country with their Right wingers are racists etc. Lefties can say anything they want and pretty much get a pass because they mean the best and so should be excused. Most folks do not read/watch and think enough to know the difference. Sad fact, but true.
 
From reading these responses, which are quite good mind you, it is very obvious to me that neither the Republican or Democratic party is a good choice for anything.

As it's been since I can remember as a boy, there has never been a good choice for president, it was simply a lesser evil.

It's always been a matter of manipulation to get the needed votes. And ethics, unfortunately, really doesn't have that much to do with it
 
Not really. They'd never help a white man through affirmative action.
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Did you read the last thing? Whites already have a helping hand in the form of legacy clauses. There are many universities where simply being the son of alumni gives you a strong in. The white alumni who orginally got in due to unfair racial preference have their white children get this unfair legacy clause, and their children... and so on.
 
A lot of racist mistakenly believe they are conservativ

wannbe nazi's are often among them.
If you really want to make a lefty go crazy, find the Nazi Party Platform, there are a lot more "liberal" ideas then Conservative ones.
I've run into these guys, they are racist, and they think they are conservatives.
Lot's of Democrats who voted for GW in 2000 are among this crowd as well.

I was working with a black guy and he was amazed that There was Arab slave traders before Europe got involved in it, A lot of modern "black" people are in deep denial about the condesending(sic) liberals who called Clarence Thomas an "uncle Tom" and have nothing good to say about Condi Rice.

I've tried engaging my old friends from NYC on the subject, but they just don't get it.
Putting Claton Cramer's racist history of gun control on liberal blogs really drives liberals crazy .
 
Whites already have a helping hand in the form of legacy clauses.
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Not to play devil's advocate, but I'm pretty sure Tuskegee University and Spellman College have legacy clauses, as do many black fraternities and sororities. What you're saying is true in certain instances and I'd be SHOCKED if Harvard and Yale haven't tried to keep black people out at some point, but legacy clauses can also be part of tradition. For instance, I went to the same prominent university as my father, older brother, and older sister. For that matter, I went to the same private highschool as my grandfather, father, uncle, cousins, and a couple other family members. Legacy helps the school see your family as a potential investment as well. I'm sure if I applied to Tuskegee, I'd face an uphill battle against many black applicants and rightly so, it means more to many of them because their fathers, grandfathers, etc. went there.

though, for all this speaking of older relatives, the gunner in me HATES grandfather clauses. :)

If you really want to make a lefty go crazy, find the Nazi Party Platform, there are a lot more "liberal" ideas then Conservative ones.
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Read the book: The Nazi War on Cancer. The nazis appear SHOCKINGLY liberal.
 
Does Tuskegeee or Grambling or any other traditionally black college offer the same status bump of an Ivy League? The same income bump?
 
A "legacy clause" may favor whites in practice (although that favor will diminish sharply over a short period of time), but that's a long way from affirmative action programs that favor minorities explicitly.

And that'll be my last word in this thread on the off-topic issue of affirmative action, racism, liberal policies in general.....

Let's get this back on topic.
 
Not to play devil's advocate, but I'm pretty sure Tuskegee University and Spellman College have legacy clauses, as do many black fraternities and sororities. What you're saying is true in certain instances and I'd be SHOCKED if Harvard and Yale haven't tried to keep black people out at some point, but legacy clauses can also be part of tradition. For instance, I went to the same prominent university as my father, older brother, and older sister. For that matter, I went to the same private highschool as my grandfather, father, uncle, cousins, and a couple other family members. Legacy helps the school see your family as a potential investment as well. I'm sure if I applied to Tuskegee, I'd face an uphill battle against many black applicants and rightly so, it means more to many of them because their fathers, grandfathers, etc. went there.
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As already mentioned, those schools are small, few in number, and do not carry the same prestige... with the racism of earlier american history and far greater prominence of long lived, prestigious white universities who had policies racially preferring whites, and which built up a large pool of white alumni because of them, there's no argument that the legacy clauses have been far more beneficial to whites than to any minority. It doesn't matter whether it's tradition or what, they're still giving biased treatment based off of something beyond the control of the applicant, something rather than the actual ability of the aspiring student.

A "legacy clause" may favor whites in practice (although that favor will diminish sharply over a short period of time), but that's a long way from affirmative action programs that favor minorities explicitly.
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That favor has not diminished quickly. It takes either a large jump in the capacity of students the U can enroll, or for the children of alumni not to take the easy brownie points. Not likely, particularly if it's a prestigious school. A parent often wants a child to attend the school they attended, and there's still a large correlation between ivy league kids who attend and parental alumni. Affirmative action can be an offset to that. It also isn't just based on race. Gender, disability status, and other things are counted in too. In places like India, affirmative action was used to counter the caste system. Though I still can't say I'm really in favor of it, as it is a kind of "wrong" to offset another sort past or current wrong. I'd rather just get rid of the oirginial institutional discrimination in the first place, but whether that's possible is up for question.
 
Yeah, you're right, I just don't understand the need for affirmative action. That must be it.
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You either don't understand the impetus or purposely mis-state it, perhaps.

To argue that affirmative action is a 'gimme' - that it actually gives minorities an advantage over whites - would be to assume that America has reached some measure of equality of opportunity in class and race (and gender). This is, of course, patently absurd. It would also assume that there exists no lingering institutional bigotry (in admissions offices and in hiring and so on) - this, too, is absurd, as born out in every statistic imaginable.

None of these programs are explicitly limited to minorities, but many are directly targeted to minorities.
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coughcough

Which are these, exactly?
 
"None of these programs are explicitly limited to minorities, but many are directly targeted to minorities"
Not exactly minorities, but here's a little snippet from my college a letter offering a scholarship opportunity:
"Preference will be given to female students as long as females are underrepresented in the field of computer science, electrical, software, telecommunications engineering and to individuals who augment the diversity of the student body in these fields."
Augment diversity? Sounds like minority folk to me.
 
Undoubtedly there are targeted college scholarships, but that's different from social welfare and also exist in terms of class and special abilities.
 
Here is the thing: If Republicans call illegal Mexicans cockroachs how long do you think it is going to be before perfectly legal Mexican-Americans take umbrage to that?
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Agreed 100%. When we have discussions about illegal immigrations, you always get a bunch of people referring to illegal mexicans as vermin and other subhuman names. How do you guys think that makes Americans of Hispanic descent feel? They're obviously not gonna jump on board with conservatives when they're calling people who look just like them "vermin"

On another gun board there was a post about a gun store employee saying only "******* and mexicans" want pistol-grip shotguns. Instead of people being offended, they were saying how refreshing it was that the employee wasnt PC. When did not being PC mean being a racist jerk? What every happened to common courtesy and respect for your fellow man?
 
Many scholarships are privately funded, and if it's not tax dollars and coming out of a private groups pocket, people can spend their money any way they want... If I'd rather buy dinner for the girl sitting on my left than the guy standing on my right, that's my choice.
 
A fact overlooked by some in this thread is that many immigrants only experience with firearms is having them pointed at them- thus they arrive in America fearful of firearms power.
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This is particularly prevalent among Jews. I've always been surprised at the anti-gun attitude among the majority of American Jews. Although in odd contrast the Jews in Israel on the whole are very pro-gun.

Personally I take the statement "never again" to mean never again without a fight. Many Jews in Nazi Germany didn't resist the Nazi's since they were the government. Why current Jews in America don't learn from history is beyond my comprehension.

Yes, there are a good number of armed Jews, but not nearly as many as there should be. And for that I would blame a somewhat blind adherence to liberalism by many American Jews.
 
Sad commentary on the state of affairs between men. Ruled by what the politicians want.. (votes)

Looks to me as though their class warfare BS is working... The white conservative is racist, generally speaking of course. Keep in mind who has tried to remove your 2A and think DC gun ownership rights, it's not the white conservative it's the white elitist liberal... If I can enslave them they will be mine to control..

Hogwash...


C
 
Agreed 100%. When we have discussions about illegal immigrations, you always get a bunch of people referring to illegal mexicans as vermin and other subhuman names. How do you guys think that makes Americans of Hispanic descent feel? They're obviously not gonna jump on board with conservatives when they're calling people who look just like them "vermin"
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My husband is part Mexican and he calls the illegal Mexican worse names then that. :eek: He says it's because he grew up around them & the ones he encountered were dirtbags. His words.
 
- some immigrants stay deathly afraid of guns, hope to never see them again, and push for gun control-

- others, like some of my other relatives, just revel in their newfound freedom, and buy up as much guns and ammo as they can, so that if the "bad times" come again, they will be able to fight back- I know some fellow immigrants who have huge stockpiles of guns and ammo, because they are worried that the Communists are going to come to America and try to get them- I know this seems paranoid, but that is just what they believe.
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My relative on my dad's side are like that. They left China before the communists took control. They are very conservative.
 
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