Zumbo shooting with Nugent

He said he had some bear hunting to do this spring. A picture of Zumbo and an AR in .458 SOCOM smiling next to a nice big(dead)black bear would go a long way.

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Yep... that would be a hoot (well, not for the bear). Zumbo, if your watching? Get to it.

Zumbogate made tonight's Colbert Report.

I'm not ready to forgive the guy. He had 60 years to figure out the 2nd amendment, guns, and their use in hunting.

His ignorance was willful, and his distaste for normal shooters egregious. He's sorry all right, sorry he got in trouble.

Forgiveness

Takes guts to forgive a man who's wronged you.

That don't mean you forget.

It does mean you have to put aside your "right to be angry" long enough to imagine that a transgressor can be contrite.


Regardless of which of those camps you inhabit, your rights are at risk.

You can kick the cat, or you can chase the guys trying to burn your house down.

Sure, the cat's a nuisance, but he's not the one with the torch.

well...

...doesn't matter what he thinks...just matters what he does...
If he follows through with the articles and actually apologizes for what he did, he'll have taken the first step...He's not done that...yet...I'd prefer he rally the hunters towards us instead of away to the other camp...That's his bailiwick...forgiven or not...

Zumbo has quite a bit of media attention ATM. A lot of non-shooters have heard about the blog incident. If he could be persuaded to make a public stand against HR 1022, maybe even to lobby some congresspeople on the subject, it could help boost the opposition to the bill. It would be worthwhile to email him and encourage him to make some waves if 1022 starts getting cosponsors. I don't know if there's an email address to reach him, though. I don't see one on his website.

1) It's not about HR1022... Altho it is NOW going to get a lot of publicity... Not because of Zumbo. Because of us.

Otherwise it likely would have died a natural death... McCarthy's recognized as a nutcase about gun control, but flogging her dead husband who got shot by someone who had time to reload gets her elected on Lawn Guyland. Every year she throws something out there, and it mostly gets ignored. Maybe not this time. Congratulations. You're helping her publicity. Feel good?

2) It -is- about what will happen in about a year and a half. For the less intelligent among you, it's a thing called "elections." Say it real slow if you need to. Because you're gonna hear a LOT about it.

Now...

THINK. Don't just react. THINK.

How can WE use this?

Other than by getting all majorly peeved, and going after ONE guy. Who likely has been pretty much at the bottom of the cesspool, regarding how he feels. You know what? I believe him. Because I _know_ guys like him. A lot of you guys probably know folks like him too. Right? They whip out the deer rifle or the duck gun, more as a ritual than anything else I guess... But that's okay. However, they are also members of our overall American culture - which means that they've been taught a LOT by television. Which means that when they see something that _looks like_ a machinegun, they assume that it is illegal. That isn't their fault. They are IGNORANT, because they have not been educated. You cannot blame a person for ignorance. You _can_ blame a person for ignoring education.

Now we can either WELCOME them, and EDUCATE them, or we can tell 'em all to go piss up a rope.

Oh yeah - that may feel like you're doing something... What it is DOING is further widening the schisms that exist in our sport. Our culture. Our way of life.

It is throwing something away.

Why? Because a lot of the EBR guys don't dig deer hunting. And a lot of the EBR guys don't dig duck hunting. Whoopee... So we can all just bloody well hang separately.

Or we can use this, and forgive. And unite. Or forever fragment.

There are a LOT of people who want us to fragment. Some of them are "members" of this forum. And they're laughing at us. THINK, people.

Oh, and I'll repeat this...

"Other than by getting all majorly peeved, and going after ONE guy."

If you guys put anywhere NEAR the energy that you've put into trashing this ONE guy into a coordinated campaign to keep anti-gun legislation from being introduced, we'd be set for the next 10 years.

For those of you who think Zumbo is just sucking up to save his career...THINK a second. Put yourself in his sponsor's shoes. This guy is radioactive right now, and will be for some time. At 67, he doesn't have the luxury of time to build his reputation back the way it was. Retirement is a much better option for him. He's really got to bust it for ANY sponsor to touch him, and I'll seriously doubt any of his old sponsors will take him back. He's literally gonna have to reinvent himself, and that will take work.

Zumbo right now represents a risk for all of those who reach out a hand to this guy. I'll give the Nuge a lot of credit for doing 99% of the reaching. He's taking the biggest risk. If this guy's Saul on the road to Damascus moment is genuine, it can be a real win for us. In order to turn back 70 years of federal law, I for one could use the help.

Dan

P.S. I want a rifle like that for my wife!!

I Gotta give the NUGE credit for educating him. Zumbo screwed up big time, and I won't pretend to understand his motives for apologizing for what he said. Whether or not he is truly sorry and just had an epiphany that black guns are okay may come out in the wash someday. I am just glad NUGE was there to correct him and take him shooting. It's the same thing many of us do. Take an anti shooting. And it makes a difference.


I question if he had an excuse to say what he said. Calling me and the rest of you all terrorists simply because we own a type of gun is bull$hit. The word terrorist is thrown about so flipantly now that it is no wonder that it feel from the lips of a moron. To equate members of the gun community, many of which have served in the military to being a terrorist, is just asking for an ass beating. How deep can he stick the knife in our backs? I don't care what happens to his career. If he truly is sorry, he'll fight like hell to help preserve the rights we have. If not, happy hunting you worthless bastard....

A different question

After watching 10 days of this stuff, one thought keeps bubbling up.

There sure are a lot of angry, brave, testosterone-laden heros posting from behind the cover of screen names and handles.

Question: Do you think it would change the nature of the discourse if people had the courage to post with real names and real home towns?

This is a peeve of mine on all internet boards, by the way -- not just with the Zumbo issue. Using real names tends, in my experience, to increase civility.

Tom, the last name's Bogardus, but one helluva lot of shooters know me face-to-face as Bogie. My Avanel Watson shirts from the Supershoot say "Bogie" on them.

And no, I don't shoot trap worth a damn. But Doc Carver still sucks.

Well, yeah - the (perceived) anonimity of the internet tends to bring out our true selves, in most cases. That's why I always post using this handle - nick - whatever - because it's my real name; it's a reminder to myself not to say anything online that I wouldn't say to someone's face.

As for Zumbo, I'm still highly pissed at the "terrorist" implication and his arrogance; however, if he's willing to listen, learn and acknowledge that, even if EBRs aren't for him, there's a legitimate place for them, I'd be prepared to listen. I'd still watch my back around him, though - drop the baby once and damn straight I'm going to watch more closely.

I also agree with bogie's point about harnessing that energy - I'm so fired-up now, I can't stand it

Tom,

You make an excellent point regarding screen names.

BTW, I was impressed with your discussions with Ted Nugent this weekend. He was passionate, articulate, and well spoken.
His posting style on the other hand (I knew it's his board), leave me somewhat perplexed. I'm forced to wonder if it's the same guy.

Just my opinion, YMMV.

PS: Any chance you'll get Mr Zumbo back on Guntalk? Let us know.

Regards,

Jack

Honestly, this is one of the reasons I rarely visit online forums. THR is pretty good compared to most, in the level of civility.

My online forum time is mostly spent on a couple of sites where everyone uses their real names.

It's simply a more pleasant environment.

The greatest victory is to make your enemy your friend.

If Zumbo does carry the pro-freedom message to the hunters, forgive and forget.

Well, I tell ya, Tom. I go by real name at several other boards and decided to remain anonymous here. The owners have my real name with my ISP should someone want to track me down. Having served in the army for over 20 years and prolly going in before you were born, I don't hide unless I'm shot at.

Right now, Zumbo is the Brady's best friend and that can't be undone. It sounds like you are of the same bent, but would expect you to stand up for / or beside your friend. I suppose I would too, up to a point. You never know when you might stumble, too.

Good luck with your career.

Johnny West

What I am looking for

is for Outdoor Life to run some articles that are pro 2A.

Ted can't type as fast as he talks. I don't think anyone can.

Tom, "Bogie" shows up on match reports. I answer to it. Ain't changing.

Now can we heal this schism? You and I want to. I _also_ question the motives of a few of the forum's "members." I think that our culture has acquired a remora-string of a few semi-pro trolls from boards like the democratic underground. They _like_ it when we're not unified.

We also have to quit this bit about "you're either 100% with us, or you're 100% against us. That _really_ hurts us.

Yeah, Zumbo's original blog can't be untyped. It was too late for that when he acknowledged that it was actually his typing. But the damage can be _minimized_.

Or you can just wallow in it.

"Because a lot of the EBR guys don't dig deer hunting. And a lot of the EBR guys don't dig duck hunting."

SO WHAT. I've never written an article calling for the banning of trap, skeet, duck hunting, coyote hunting, deer hunting, bear hunting, even fox hunting on horseback, or leg-hold traps. Nor for the banning of semiauto shotguns, pump shotguns, or break-open shotguns. NEVER. Yet every time I go to shoot trap or skeet with my Benelli M1S90, I get nothing but s**t from the Perazzi and Citori guys.

It's you whinning Fudds who don't accept or understand us EBR folks.

Quit the name calling. And quit wallowing in self-pity. And USE the anger. Direct it other than at one man, who has had enough. We're damn lucky that he didn't off himself last week. I'll bet he thought about it. That woulda made for some _real_ juicy headlines...

Maybe we're doomed to be divided. And we'll slowly be exterminated. One group, by one group.

I was likely shooting an M-16 before a lot of you guys here were born. I'll go to a range with you, and as long as it IS NOT trap shooting or dancing around with something, I'll take your money.

Now can we heal this schism? You and I want to.

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bogie, AMEN!

Now could you pass that case of STS 9s this way so we can on with it?

Johnny:

You may have gone into the service before I was born, but if so, you served in Korea. <grin>

As for "Right now, Zumbo is the Brady's best friend and that can't be undone. It sounds like you are of the same bent,"

You'll have to fill in the blanks a bit on that one. After 40 years of fighting for gun rights in print, on the airwaves, in person, in Washington, DC, on national media, etc., on top of which I'm a shooter and owner of (4) AR-15s, I'm not quite clear on what you mean.

What the heck is an STS 9? Some sorta pistol?

I shoot 1911s. A manly round, fit for a Viking. Except for my .357, which will go through engine blocks, so I cut it a little slack.

Tom's got more AR-15s than I do.

I'm guessing I may have more bulk powder than he does...

Zumbo's message...if you can call it that.

I got trashed the last time I took up for an underdog, so this won't be a new experience. I despise every word Jim Zumbo said about firearms. It was dumb...hurtful...clueless...and nearly anything else bad you want to lay on him. He was stupid for saying it. But he's part of the family and you don't kick family to the curb when they screw things up for you. If he is repentant for the harm he has done to all of us then he has a lot of catch up to do to put it right. And if he works to do that I'd be one of the first to hold out my right hand to him. I've raised 5 kids and held work in the public sector all my life and there's not a day that passes that I don't think of something I said when in a brain cramp that hurt somebody I didn't want to hurt and that I would give a lot to take back and never have said. I have to look at what Zumbo said as a catalyst which has brought our peaceful nature as gun people to a boil. I'm so old and worn that I can't even remember who said this... But: "That which does not destroy me makes me stronger."

Bogie:

>>We also have to quit this bit about "you're either 100% with us, or you're 100% against us. That _really_ hurts us.<<

Just yesterday I was telling a friend that there are some folks "on our side" who take a position that if someone is with us on 98% of the issues, he or she is the enemy because it's not 100%.

Talk about a self-inflicted wound.