Urban Battle Rifle classes?

You'll find the Mosin Nagant m44's to be extremely accurate and reliable rifles.

400 yds with one is very very realisitic indeed.

Buddy of mine picked up one at the shop a few months back at damned if that rifle isn't one of the most accurate things we've both seen for some time with that much time since being made.

Brownie

Try Gabe Suarez:

https://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=224

Detailed Description

ADVANCED RIFLE GUNFIGHTING

October 22-23, 2007

Houston, Texas



Our Rifle Gunfighting Course has set the standard for close range rifle training, but there is a limit to what can be done in two days. Where Rifle Gunfighting is all shooting and focuses on short range applications, Advanced Rifle Gunfighting adds material that takes the rifle farther pushing both the weapon system and operator to new levels.



In addition to this we have added Small Team Tactics (2-3 shooters), Team Immediate Action and Movement Drills, Use of the Inoperative Rifle in Alternative Force (buttstrokes and bayonets), as well as several Rifle Force on Force exercises with our Airsoft Rifles. Finally we will spend some time working on Vehicle Gunfighting With Rifles as we study how to operate in and around vehicles with our long guns.



Days will be long, intense, and filled with life-saving information. This class will set a new standard for civilian and professional rifle training. Not For Novice Rifle Shooters, if in doubt, please call.



Duration: 2 days

Ammunition: Approximately 750 rounds (Minimum) , 50 rounds pistol ammunition,

Requirements: Rifle (Any Action or Caliber suitable for use within 50 yards), All weapons must be equipped with a sling, Also bring a Pistol with at least two magazines, Belt, Holster, Magazine Pouches, Rifle Ammo Pouches, Ear & Eye Protection, (knee & elbow pads are strongly suggested). Bring Long Sleeve Shirt for force on force drills.

Instructor(s): Gabe Suarez

Location: Impactzone Range in Katy, TX

Click to expand...

I've trained with Mr. Suarez myself, and I can recommend him highly. Hopefully you can make the drive to Houston...

This is a great idea. I have been shooting mil-surp bolt guns most of my life, mainly because they were fun to shoot and innexpensive. Recently, however, I have learned that these old guns are really great weapons indeed. I know a guy that has a California assault rifle, a bushmaster, and I ussually outshoot him with my old Mausers and Mosins. He is faster on the trigger, but he often misses.

A few lessons on a course like the tactical rifle courses you see, would be a lot of fun. If there was one hosted in one of the western states, I would go.
Mauserguy

Is there an Appleseed shoot near you?

El Tejon made the same suggestion I was to make.

Perhaps not -really- urban rifle fighting, but a good basic start.

Appleseed is a nationwide project (growing) to help Americans remember the history of the Citizens who on April 19, 1775 stode up to the invading/occupying Army on the road to Lexington and Concord, when said army sought to disarm (confiscate the magazine..all the powder) and render these citizens unable to defend themselves. The took their hunting firearms and stood up to the (at the time) greatest army of the world, using what could be called gorrilla tactics (firing from cover and concealment) and being lethal in hitting their target.

RWVA.Org (The Revolutionary War Veterans Association) "sponsors" this project (look for the "Appleseed Project" on the left menu) and actually has the articles from Fred (FredsM14stocks.com) inthe Riflemens toolkit.

Now, the program is designed to be run out of a car trunk, so you find a range or tract of land to run a shoot...at 25 Meters, minimally, and we'll help you do the program..two days..16 hours.

You'll learn how to take ANY surplus rifle, surplus ammo, and the most important part, you the shooter, and cosnsitently hit a 20" wide target (Military definition of a "Man") out to 500 Yards.

Now, before you get all loopy, we run the program on a reduced target at 25 meters, because the basics are the basics (you gotta crawl before you run).
We'll teach the six steps of firing EVERY SHOT (sight alignment, sight picture, breath control and Natural point of aim, focus on the front sight/mind on the target, trigger press, cal the shot in follow through), zeroing YOUR stick for Point of Impact, and Battle Sight Zero (you can hit anything to 300 without a sight adjustment), wind estimation and hold off, estimating range using your front sight blade, use of the military sling for stability, and shooting offhand (100 yards) sitting/kneeling (200 yards) and prone (300-400 yards simulated)

IF YOU HAVE the range to go to 500, we will too, after the basics. In fact, if you go the "Home range" in Ramseur, we'll shoot pop-ups to 600, and shoot on the advance.

Can't get more practical basics than that.

And your timing is perfect, because there is a weeklong bootcamp in February! 6 days of shooting instruction and practice for $200,camp for free on the range!

Go to the website and browse a bit. You'll much more than you paid for. And yes, we do discuss bayonet charge and butt stroke! The US Mil did in the WW training era, so it is discussed.
'
Pacer

Learn to crawl, then walk, then run, then go do "urban rifle" training. A house without a solid foundation will collapse. Appleseed can provide that foundation.

This is truly a wonderful concept and apparently executed very well.

Remembered another possible choice:

http://www.thunderranchinc.com/courses.html - scroll all the way down to "Old Rifle:"

Old Rifle-OR
Course is intended for original or clones of rifles with iron sights made before 1950. Rifles acceptable for this course could cover a probable time span of the 1870's to 1950. Examples of acceptable rifles could be Model 1873, 1876, 1886, 1892, 1894, 1895 Winchesters. Also acceptable are Krags, 1903 Springfield and variants, Enfield, M-1 Garands, M-1 Carbines and 98 Mausers, Single shot (i.e.) Sharps, Ballards, Trapdoors etc. Blackpowder or smokeless rifles are acceptable. The course format is to address the serious use of and potential effectiveness of the operator and their selected rifle.
Ammunition: based on time

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I know nothing of Thunder Ranch beyond what is written in gun magazines, but they have a good reputation for instruction, and can probably take you "from zero to sixty" pretty quick. It's a farther drive, and cost will be $880 for 3 days; also, looking at 2007, I don't see any OR courses scheduled. Another point - on-site classes in Oregon require non-toxic "green" ammo, which is unavailable in any mil-surp calibers except possibly for .30-06 and .308. Off-site classes are not necessarily subject to this restriction.

As far as Suarez International's Rifle Gunfighting classes, they normally have "basic-level" classes scheduled, but apparently there is more demand for other courses, and only so many open dates during the year. You may want to inquire if they can refer you to an independent instructor who is associated with S.I. for private training, or perhaps look into organizing several shooting buddies in your area in order to get your very own class scheduled for you. Like they say, "if in doubt, please call" - you may find that the course already fits your existing skill-set.

So people can take the course with their old rifle, but they just can't shoot because there is no 'green' ammo made?

Re classes:

http://rwva.blogspot.com/2007/01/rwva-rifle-instructors-camp-ramseur-nc.html

or

http://www.rwva.org/yabbse/index.php?PHPSESSID=39283d15aaf6fc04792322ffe020d826&board=45.0

Re home study - read the "Rifleman Series" in the left margin of below:

http://rwva.blogspot.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m1yN-3n0FU

Some "old school" rapid fire going on here! Don't count the Enfields out!

Firearms Academy of Seattle (FAS)

If you're willing to travel to Washington, FAS offers the following...

LEVEL 1 RIFLE
A one-day training course covering a broad range of topics dealing with general rifle or carbine use. Designed for the student who has little or no experience shooting rifles or carbines, class starts at the beginning with basic rifle marksmanship principles, sighting in and establishing a “zero” for your rifle, plus rifle maintenance and cleaning, and moves on to different shooting positions and various distances. See the course description for dates and details.


LEVEL 2: TACTICAL RIFLE
Level Two Rifle is geared for the patrol officer or armed citizen wanting to increase proficiency with the semi-auto rifle/carbine. Instruction includes use of cover, search techniques, multiple targets, rapid fire, long range shooting (out to 200 yards), transition to pistol, malfunction clearing, speed reloading, moving and shooting and shooting on moving targets, along with use of the rifle in low-light environments. See the course description for dates and details.

LEVEL 3: CLOSE QUARTERS CARBINE
Our third level of rifle/carbine training, offered new for 2007, centers on using the .223 semi-auto carbine in close-range encounters, from 3 to 25 yards. Subject matter includes movement, moving targets, 360-degree awareness and target engagement, along with multiple targets, low light shooting, transition to handgun and hostage rescue concerns. Use of cover and stress exercises are also included. See the course description for dates and details.


COMBINED 3-GUN CLASS
For students who want to compress the material we teach in our Advanced Defensive Handgun, Tactical Rifle and Advanced Defensive Shotgun classes into one convenient week-long class, we are offering a combined three-gun course to meet that goal. Students in this combined three-gun class will also have the opportunity to complete the Handgun, Rifle and Shotgun Masters tests. See the course description for dates and details.


Level 1: PRECISION RIFLE
2-day class geared for the patrol officer or experienced shooter. Exercises include rifle marksmanship principles, field positions including prone, sitting, kneeling and standing (with or without sling), use of cover/camouflage exercises, engaging moving targets and use of the FAS Marksman's tower for tactical exercises. See the course description for dates and details.


Level 2: PRECISION RIFLE
Open only to graduates of FAS Precision Rifle-1 or certified police snipers, this 2-day class builds on existing skills and challenges to solve shooting problems. This is done through presenting a variety of problems that one might encounter in the real world, including target identification, moving targets, rapid fire precision shot making, varying distances and angles, different shooting positions, accurate shot placement from 50 to 400 yards and exercises in both daylight and low light. See the course description for dates and details.

http://www.firearmsacademy.com/overview.htm

-Paul

Psssssssst . . .

Combat tactics with a bolt action center fire rifle went out of fashion about 1940 when Germany invented the Sturmgewehre . . . "assault rifle."

Pump action 12 gauge, semi auto carbine like an AR or AK . . . SKS. M1 carbine would work, Garand in a pinch. But bolt action and bayonet went out of style right after the Springfield trap-door, which replaced muzzle loaders.

All my money is on the AK. Right size, right design, readily available. Ten zillion third-world terrorists can't be wrong!

Take an Appleseed course...

Take an Appleseed course. They will teach you the fundamentals and from there you can grow.

45/70 has a point about bolt actions being a bit old.

However, a good bolt action in capable hands trumps an idiot with an AK.

And, for those who can't afford a tricked out HK-91 or a Rock River AR-15 (or a clunker AK that you can't find ammo for), a bolt action M-N, Enfield or a Mauser will do just fine if you know what you're doing.

Unless you're worried about the zombie factor - hoards of zombies ambling your direction ready to devour you just like Dawn of the Dead. In which case a 10-22 (or an AR platform for living zombies) might be your best choice.

John

That sounds like a fun idea. Our local range (Custer Sportsman's Club, Custer, Washington) has a tactical course behind the primary berm, and I've considered running it with a bolt-action once or twice, purely for yucks.
For one thing, it teaches you the limitations of the systems, both the weapon and the course. It would also make for an excellent opportunity to practice your bayonet thrust in a tactical situation.

Actually, it might be fun to run a milsurp clinic that culminated in just such an excercise. I'll need to bring that up with the rangemaster's husband.

John Farnham teaches a Urban Rifle class and travels thruout the USA.

http://www.defense-training.com/courses/index.html

You will need a semiautomatic such as M1 carbine, SKS, Garand, etc. no bolt action rifle accepted.

For a bolt action rifle, perhaps you need to find a precision rifle course that allows iron sights.

Is there an Appleseed shoot near you?

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Could someone explain to me what an Appleseed Shoot is?

I've taken several courses at Thunder Ranch over the years and have never been disappointed. My wife and I did a tutorial using our Garands for exactly what you are describing in your original post and it was quite enlightening. The M1 remains a capable and potent system in the right hands, and I would venture to say the same is true of a good bolt gun.

Regards,

Bob