Garand - Shooting and Learning About

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PaulTX

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I wrote about having a nice SA Garand in layaway - well, it didn't stay there long! I got it out yesterday. I looked it over, did a field strip, and cleaned/lubed it. I reloaded 48 rounds of ammo with 24 being Hornady 168 gr. HPBT and 24 Remington 150 gr. SP - over IMR-4895. The ranges in my area don't allow FMJ.

I went to the range this morning and was very pleased with the accuracy! I shot a 4-5" group at 100 yards (I'm still very much improving on rifle) and I think with the right load (or maybe the right person!) is capable of 2".

There were 2 problems: the bolt wouldn't automatically come forward when the loaded clip locked in and it wouldn't kick out the clip on the last round - although it would do so manually with the clip release.

I spent some time this afternoon playing with the action and trying to learn how everything works in the cycling. Parts of the cycle are obvious and others are somewhat hidden in the process. I figured out what part held the operating slide back and felt there should be something that trips the other end (near the barrel) of the clip release that protrudes into the magazine well. That lead (eventually) to the realization my operating rod catch assembly was missing the "leg" that trips the clip release - it's broken clean off. So, I'm going to order a new part and that should be resolved!

I've not completely disassembled the Garand yet, but have found this information on it:

Serial No: 4217***

Receiver: B 43 H
D 6528291 43

Barrel side marking: W 3A650

Bolt: D28287-19SA

Operating Rod: 6535382 SA (Cut)

Trigger housing: 028290-12-SA

Trigger guard: 2

Hammer: C46008-2 SA

If anyone can provide some information on the above, I would appreciate it. I've got Duff's "The M1 Garand: Owner's Guide", which is very good. I'll be buying more books in the future.

Here's a picture, not a good pic, but I was in a hurry:

Garand3a.jpg
 
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It is normal for the bolt not to close automatically when clip is seated. You cannot , however, be sure the bolt will not slam home every time you seat a clip, sometimes they do so be sure your thumb is pointed toward muzzle as you press clip home. This will assure the bolt will kick the thumb up and out of the way of the bolt and avoid an "M1 thumb".

Also make a practice of holding the bolt back (open) with the side of your right hand as you press clip in w/right thumb; once clip clicks in place, bring right hand up and forward sharply, releasing the op rod. If bolt does not close, just bump the op rod handle with the heel of your right hand and let the bolt slam home.

Regards,
hps
 
Thanks for the information, sounds like good words to live by!

I did have a few times when I pulled the bolt back on a new clip and it got stuck part way in stripping the top round. A hit forward on it and it finished closing. Why does it do that - does it need a new spring?
 
Is the operating rod catch missing the leg or has it been cut off?
If the leg has been cut off and the small pin knocked out and the L shaped piece removed then you now have a rifle that will hold the bolt open until you pull back and release the op rod handle.You can also single load the clip while it is in the rifle. My M1 is modified this way and I enjoy it very much as I don't have to worry about getting my very old thumb mashed.
 
PaulTX,

I'll second what the guys said...

Re prob one... not closing. ABSOLUTELY NORMAL.

Of all the Garands I own, and I probably shoot M1's more than all other rifles combined, ONLY ONE will close automatically and that only about half the time.

This is one of the little bugs of the design that the SA engineers never worked out. Fortunately it's a benign bug.

I've watched old WWII war newsreels, training films, and movies. It's common to see GI's & Marines shoving in a full clip and then bumping the op-rod as they withdraw their thumb. After awhile it becomes second nature and you do it so fast you don't even realize you did it....

Re broken op-rod catch. Sounds like your rifle might have a Holbrook Device installed. This is an intentionally modified catch that allows the rifle to retain the clip until the release is pressed. You can now put in an empty clip and load single rounds by pressing them in one at a time with your thumb, shooting it, then pressing in another.

Some people like this feature. I don't because I shoot NRA and CMP Highpower events with my Garands. Since it does not automatically eject the clip the Holbrook Device slows down the reload sequence in the rapid fire stages. I prefer to use a SLED for my slow fire, single load stages and have normal function during the rapids.

Best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever
 
Deles136 and Swampy,

It looks like (still in the rifle) the operating rod catch's "arm" was snapped off - doesn' t look like a clean cut. The metal in this piece may not have been the best as the broken end looks a little grainy.

I guess there are advantages and disadvantages to having that arm trip the clip release!

Thanks for the information guys!
 
What's going on when you have to pull the handle back 2-3 times to get the bolt to go forward after putting in a new clip? It ocassionally has problems releasing.

Thanks Ledbetter, I've done some reading at jouster.com - need to do more. I've learned a tremendous amount about the Garand in the last few days.

I used to have a burning desire about once a year for an AR15, but I think the Garand will quell that desire for some time to come.

The Garand is a fairly heavy rifle, but the way it balances or you hold it or something makes it feel not quite so heavy.
 
Paul, when you shove in a fresh clip, the bolt and op rod may close by itself, as others have said.

But you NEVER pull back on the op rod after seating the clip, just smack it forward to load the first round. If you pull back, you may eject the full clip you just loaded! just smack it forward!
 
Dave P,

Thanks, I'll try going the other direction next time - "smacking it forward"! Does this mean the op rod is just barely "caught" on the op rod catch due to putting the new clip in? I guess when you put in a new clip it depresses the op rod catch, but just not quite enough?
 
The op rod not fully running forward upon seating of the clip can be caused by a bunch of things, many of them minor. The list includes:
1. weak op rod spring
2. extra tight clip that holds cartridges more securely than usual
3. op rod catch that is not totally releasing the op rod
4. op rod that binds on stock/handguard slightly
5. op rod that binds on barrel/receiver

The only ones to worry about here for us are are the last two, as that is signs of fundamental issues that need to be addressed.

Items #1 thru 3 may make the full release of the op rod a slight annoyance. If you know the rod runs free and does not bind, and you have a good op rod spring, then tapping the back of the op rod handle with the heel of your hand to "jump start" the rod is no big deal, and can become second nature in rapid fire reloads.

Have you done the barreled action op rod binding test to make sure the rod is running smoothly? That would eliminate items 4 and 5.
 
I don't think the op rod is binding anywhere, but will investigate further. Last night I did put a full clip in the magazine and try to get the bolt forward by hitting my palm (pretty hard) on the op rod. It would not move at all.

I'm going to replace the op rod catch and wonder if it is having or causing more problems. Without the arm that connects to the clip release, how does the op rod catch "know" the clip is fully inserted?
 
M1 Clip Latch System (LONG)

The M1's magazine feeding system is pretty ingenious, and is complicated series of levers.

When one inserts the loaded clip, the follower is pushed down by this action. The clip latches at the bottom of the downstroke by having the clip latch engage a notch in the clip. This is what holds the clip in once its' loaded.

While the follower is being depressed, the follower arm is being rotated thru a forward arc. As it rotates forward, it strikes the accelerator, which is a small "L" shaped piece that is pinned to the op rod catch.

The accelerator cams against the nose of the bullet guide, and in doing so, causes the front of the op rod catch to pull downward, away from the op rod, and thus disengaging the op rod catch from the hooks on the bottom of the op rod.

The timing is such that the op rod is fully released from the hooks just as the clip latch engages.

This can all be studied (and checked out for proper timing) by doing the following:
1. make up a clip of dummy cartridges (It's NOT SAFE to do this timing check with live ammo, due to slamfire potential!!)
2. remove action from stock, and clamp receiver in padded vise, so that op rod latch and associated hardware is visible outside vise jaws.
3. slowly insert clip, while watching op rod catch move away from hooks on op rod. Clip should latch just before op rod is released from hooks.
4. this test is best done with an old op rod spring that is cut down from full length. This lessens the potential for M1 thumb while doing this check. You only need a spring that is strong enough to move the op rod forward of the hooks, as you are NOT trying to actually chamber a round, only to check cliplatch/op rod catch geometry.

If this is not happening correctly, your rifle is out of time, and the fix is to replace parts with known good ones in the following order:

1. Bullet guide
2. Follower arm
3. Clip latch spring
4. Op rod catch

Jerry Kuhnhausen's book on the M1 is an EXCELLENT source of information for trouble shooting the M1 and it's very elegant loading system. His book inlcudes, among other things, the critical dimensions on the various parts that can help spot worn components that afffect the loading system.
 
AZ Jeff,

Thanks for the "loading lesson"! There is more going on there than I realized. I'll try to do what you have noted about following the operation out of the stock. I have an op rod catch on order already.
 
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