Kinda nice...Kinda weird...Kinda annoying RO.

Its been my experience that 99.99% of Viet Nam Vets are not gonna brag about how many people they killed in 'Nam. Sounds to me like this guy is either a faux vet or a real assclown

My hat's off to anyone who can even hit paper at 50 yds/m with a handgun. If I want to punch holes in paper at 50 m and beyond, I reach for a rifle. A handgun, to me, is a close quarter defensive arm, and I practice with it that way.

I think the guy was pure hot air. And, please, spare the unsolicited war stories.

You handled it well. No reason to aggravate the RO if you plan on shooting there regularly.

Might have been fun to see what would have happened if you had said, "Bet you fifty bucks you can't put three out of five on paper at 50 m."

K

Yeah just typical BSing at the range. I woulda been Hilarious to hand him the SW1911 and ask him "Could you show me the proper way to shoot to ensure I hit the target everytime at 50 m?"

Well, I don't view my guns solely as tools for shooting people (not even primarily) and making small groups at 25 or 50 yards is a lot more fun and satisfying than making small groups at 7 or 15.

Yeah just typical BSing at the range. I woulda been Hilarious to hand him the SW1911 and ask him "Could you show me the proper way to shoot to ensure I hit the target everytime at 50 m?"

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You know I've NEVER had someone take me up on that. They always suddenly have something else to do. I must just have bad timing

(though I did know one guy who regularly astounded at 50 yards with a 6" .44 Magnum... He was really just SCARY GOOD with that thing. Passed away before I could learn much from him though, very sad ).

My hats off to anyone who can even hit paper at 50 yds/m with a handgun.

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Try it sometime - helps to have a decent barrel length. I outshot a bud at 75 yards who had just bolted a scope mount onto his SKS rifle... I was shooting a Dan Wesson .357 with handloads...

I have only heard one nam vet talk about the war period, out of all of the nam vets I know. The only reason he said anything was to prove a point as he was instructing us at the badlands.

I agree with Larry.

Yeah, sounds like a phony to me. If he really had 'experienced' Vietnam, he would not be running his mouth about it.

"Seriously, except for bragging rights, why would you want to practice a pistol at 50m?"

"A handgun, to me, is a close quarter defensive arm, and I practice with it that way."

Well, to me a handgun is either my 14" Remington XP-100 7mm IHMSA or my 10.5" Ruger Super Silhouette .44 Magnum. Neither of them would make a very good "close quarter defensive arm" IMHO.
The reason I and many others IHMSA shooters practice at 50 meters with pistols is because 50 meters is the distance to the chicken silhouettes in an IHMSA match. The ram silhouettes are at 200 meters.
Nevertheless, I think I understand what you're talking about in your post JoseM. That guy sounds like he might have been a jerk - a "Range Rat" as hso said. It's just that even though there are dozens of types of shooting sports that I don't know anything about, much less participate in, you'll never see me post a question asking why someone else might want to other than for "bragging rights."

My hats off to anyone who can even hit paper at 50 yds/m with a handgun.

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Try it with one of these. It's really not that hard.

Walter

Reminds me of a supposed Vietnam vet who, by his claims, could kill me or anyone else without breaking a sweat, through any of a multitude of methods. I cannot remember doing anything to set the guy off. I distinctly remember him in my face, poking me in the chest, and me thinking that some Lays potato chips and a beer would really hit the spot. On the other hand, I knew a couple of other guys that were supposedly ex-SF’s Nam vets. I felt comfortable enough to give them a couple of jabs about their training and what they were, at least previously, capable of. Nothing in the way of a response from them but some self-effacing comments and a smile. Who sounds more secure?

50m huh; I cannot remember the last time I shot a handgun at a target more than 15m away.

It looks like you just learned firsthand why many people do not like the Wake County range. It's a shame that such an excellent facility was wasted by having a bunch of local elitist shooters run it.

Just keep in mind something similar will happen every time you go there.

Try it with one of these. It's really not that hard.

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My hat's off to anyone who can lift that thing. LOL.

Sharps--

Totally understand the long distance handgun shooting thing. As I said, "for me" a handgun is a CQ defensive arm. I'm never going to be able to shoot one worth spit at distance, so I don't really try. I'm in awe of those that can cuz I can appreciate the skill and practice that must take.

K

"Seriously, except for bragging rights, why would you want to practice a pistol at 50m?"

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Hunting with a 454 Cassul comes to mind. Or any other large pistol cartridge of that sort.

Dude sounds like an (appropriate non-THR comment here)

That's pretty unusual - I shoot all the time at that range, and I have never had that response. In fact, I have never seen them ask anyone to move a target farther back. They are usually pretty hard core about keeping shots on the paper - very protective of the ceiling and those angles steel beams.

The only RO's I've ever talked with there have been mellow retired IBM sorts, more or less enjoying their hobby.

I agree with the general consensus. There have been two people I knew very well who were in Vietnam. One wasn't ever in combat, and the other never talked about it. Actually the guy who had been in combat did tell a funny story one time.

I knew him in Yemen, and I was hanging out at his house. My buddy was reaching up on to a shelf, and the shirt rose up on his back. Another guy was out, and he was a (military) doctor. The doctor pointed to scar on my friend's back, said, "That's a bullet wound."

My friend laughed and said, "Yeah, the funniest damn thing is that I didn't even know I had been shot. I had been on 95 missions in a 100 days. I had been running around the jungle like a crazy man. I felt the burning and figured it was an ant or a spider - I was always getting bit by a damn ant or spider or something. It burned like hell. I was wearing a flak jacket, so that mostly stopped it. Two days later, when I got back to base, they told me I'd been shot. I told them I wanted a Purple Heart. They just laughed."

The doctor looked surprised and said, "That should have gotten you a Purple Heart."

My friend shook his head.

Then they doctor smiled. "Oh, you weren't supposed to be where you were."

My friend laughed and said, "I wasn't exactly in Vietnam when I was shot."

The doctor nodded.

My friend laughed, and said, "Yep. On top of that, they said I couldn't get a Purple Heart because my all my orders said I was in Virginia, the whole time I was over there. V.O.C.O."

I didn't know what the that meant, but after he left, I asked the doctor what V.O.C.O. meant (I was in Peace Corps, and had never heard the term), and what my buddy meant about Virginia. The doctor laughed and said, "Vocal Orders Commanding Officer. When _____ said his paperwork said in was in Virginia, he meant Langley."

I didn't ask any more, and my buddy never said anything more about Vietnam. Actually, one time, he said whatever he was doing there was "better than sharecropping like my daddy." That's all he said.

After knowing him, I suspect that most people who want to brag about their combat experience in Vietnam were BSing me.

Mike

I seem to recall a feller named Elmer who liked shooting relatively short-barreled iron-sighted dealies at distance...

Guys, it's just ballistics, a decent trigger, and a steady mind...

BTW, I usually handgun "practice" at 7 yards with a .45, or lately my new Kel-Tec... It point NICE!

Sights? What sights?

Got it Kentak. I was exaggerating just to make a point. Kind of clowning around actually.
I have handguns other than my IHMSA competition guns. My 1911 .45ACP wouldn't work worth a darn for 200 meter ram silhouettes, but I figure it will serve me well if I ever need it for CQ defense. Consequently, I seldom practice shooting over 15 yards with it.
And on another thing you stated in your first post in this thread - about reaching for a rifle for punching holes in paper at 50 meter and beyond, I understand that too. The fact is my wife and I (we're both shooting enthusiasts) have tipped over hundreds of 200 meter ram silhouettes with handguns, but when we hunt deer we carry high-powered, scoped rifles. It would be totally irresponsible for either of us to take a shot at a deer with an open-sighted .44 Magnum at 200 meters. It would be iffy (IF it was scoped and IF I had a good rest) for me to try it even with my 7mm IHMSA. The deer uncle Elmer killed at 600 yards with his .44 Magnum was, by his own account, already wounded and escaping. Keith claimed he never would have tried that shot otherwise.

My competition partner and I typically gauge the accuracy of our various handguns by doing shots on steel at 100M. It's not that difficult if you focus on the basics.

This pi**'s me off. I too was in Nam and the only guys I talk to about my experiences are other vets. I don't wear my service like a badge as this guy obviously does. I seriously doubt if he was in combat because combat vets don't talk about how many kills they have. He was all BS. If he was there he was probably some REMF with a wanna be fantasy, if he was there at all. Guys like this do a dis-service to everyone. He's not helping other vets, he's not helping the range and he's certainly not impressing people. One of the previous posts was right - shoulda handed the guy your gun and said "show me". that would have shut him up real quick. Damn - I hate these kinds of people!

(I'm really a sweet guy!)

My hats off to anyone who can even hit paper at 50 yds/m with a handgun

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Seriously, except for bragging rights, why would you want to practice a pistol at 50m?"

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http://www.bullseyepistol.com/amucover.htm

The AMU guide to pistol marksmanship is a good read.

I've only spoken to two gentlemen who were in combat in Vietnam and the defining characteristic I noticed in my small sample was an unwillingness to get into details, numbers or specifics.

My grandfather's unit helped clear the Phillipines and New Guinea of Japanese. He told many war stories, but they were all humorous anecdotes of the funny things they did to amuse themselves between enemy contact. He never talked about killing anyone, even though he carried a BAR. One day a Japanese patrol pinned down his unit and him and his buddy suppressed them while the others retreated to a safer position. He said that while he was lying in the rotting vegetation, he could hear the Japanese soldiers working the bolts on their rifles. He got a bronze star for that engagement.

Soldiers who brag about kills in combat are usually either lying or have issues they haven't dealt with.

A very good friend of my fathers was a sniper in VietNam.

It took me 4 years of begging and drinking on hunting trips to get him to tell me any stories at all.

One night he told me everything.

Wish I hadn't asked

Someone bragging about it hasn't done it in my opinion.