mosin and or mauser

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Surplus_and_Used_Long_Guns.html

Good company to deal with and has decent prices.

Most any sporting goods chain should have 'em. Here on the West Coast, Big 5 carries them as a regular item, and in the northern Midwest Dunhams has them also. They're also pretty regular pawn shop fare - Joe Bob buys one because it's eighty bucks, buys a box of Remington at Walmart for $.75/rd, goes out, shoots it, decides he still likes his Mossberg ATR better and pawns it.

For some sites that should carry Mosins, check out the Ultimate C&R Dealer/Distributor List.

You should be able to find 'em all over the place online for ~$90. You pay shipping (ground shipping on rifles is kosher with the gov't, and cheap) and transfer fees to whichever local dealer will agree to receive it for you (averages around $25) and then it's just a matter of waiting for a call from said dealer to let you know your rifle is in - or you can get a Type 03 FFL, Curio & Relic license, which allows you to have any firearm that is considered a C&R shipped directly to your home. It's easy to get, cheap [IIRC it's something like $40 or $60 for the application fee], and should pay for itself as 1) you won't have to pay your dealer a transfer fee for each gun, and 2) a lot of places like Midway and Numrich offer discounts to FFL holders including C&R FFLs.

Of the Mosins I would recommend the M39.

I have two.

I got them from Pat Burns. www.gunsnammo.com I think is the web site.

I couldn't tell ya as I have no experience with Mausers.

Mosins are a fantastic buy at $70-90: they are accurate enough for most purposes (though you may have to experiment with different ammo to find the kind your rifle likes to eat best), solid, reliable, dripping with history, and two of the three models come with a freakin' bayonet that's as long as your forearm.

The "best" are Finnish Mosins - Mosins that were captured by the Finns during their Winter and Continuation Wars with Russia and modified for their purposes. They are accepted to be the most accurate Mosins (the most prolific sniper in history, a Finn by the name of Simo Hayha, racked up somewhere around 500 kills with, among other things, an unscoped Finnish Mosin) but are much rarer and more sought after than your average, run-of-the-mill Ruskie, and so the price reflects that. You should be able to find a few at EmpireArms.com and GunsNAmmo.com, starting around $200 or $250. The tiger-stripe stocks on some Finns are gorgeous.

Mosins are generally seen in three models: the M91/30, the M38, and the M44. The M91/30 is a full-length rifle and comes with a detachable spike bayonet. The M38 and M44 are carbine models and are about a foot, foot and a half shorter than the 91/30, if memory serves (I've got all three leaning in my closet if you want me to go dig them out and compare). The only difference between the M38 and the M44 is that the M38 has no bayonet, whereas the M44 has an integral side-folding spike bayonet. It adds quite a bit of weight to the gun and the only practical use I've seen proposed for it is as a stake: just stab the bayonet into the ground and the rifle's stood up and ready to grab should you need it while afield.

Surplus 7.62x54R is scarce, at least for now, with rumors of the ATF refusing to approve Form 6s for the importation thereof, but you'll probably be using commercial softpoints for hunting anyway. I believe (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, someone) that the Mosin has an advantage over the Mauser here: I've seen commercial US 7.62x54R fairly often, but never commercial 8mm Mauser.

There are a few "downsides," of course. The trigger is said to be not-all-that-great (I don't have a problem with mine; it's a mass-produced military arm, not a target rifle, and some people seem to have over-lofty expectations from their Mosins) and the bolt can be difficult to work, especially using lacquer-cased ammo like Wolf. This is caused by cosmoline gunked up in the chamber and is an easy fix: just chuck a shotgun bore brush into a drill and go to work on the chamber. Shouldn't take more than five minutes before your bolt works fine.

If nothing else, buy one as a range toy. There's still plenty of surplus ammo out there waiting to be brought in, and turning heads at the range when your Mosin goes BOOOOOM is the most fun I can think of to be had for under $100.

Commercially loaded hunting loads for 8x57 JS Mauser are available from Remington, Federal, Winchester, Norma, Sellier & Belloit and Wolf Gold. All of them are SAAMI-spec loads for the US market. Domestic producers tend to load 170gr, Europeans 196gr, all run about 2400-2500 fps so you won't blow your stupid self up if you shoot them in a 1888 Commission Rifle, but they get the job done on game. It is anybody's guess whether milsurp ammo for either caliber is ever going to be cheap again or not. Currently milsurp ammo is just about the same price as reloading.

A good Finn Mosin or Czech/Yugo Mauser rifle all run close to the same price, so it is really a matter of esthetics more than money.

rr2241tx said:

Commercially loaded hunting loads for 8x57 JS Mauser are available from Remington, Federal, Winchester, Norma, Sellier & Belloit and Wolf Gold.

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Are these generally available at non-specialty retail locations? It's not that I've ever specifically looked for it, but I've never seen any 8mm on the shelves while perusing ammo. Maybe it's just generally kept in the display cases behind the counter as handgun ammo is in most places I've shopped.

I just feel it's advantageous that most Walmarts and other common megamarts will usually have at least a box or two of Remington 54R on hand.

I find 8x57 more common than 7.62x54R, commercially speaking. the European factory loads are superior to ANY loaded in the USA.

Mosins and mausers are both good, I have about 20 of the former and 7 or 8 of the latter.

5 or 6 years ago, surplus mausers were everywhere and for cheap, now there isn't much of a selection of them anymore. Mostly you'll find Yugo 24/47, Yugo K98 reworks, or M48s for sale.

Right now Mosin nagants are cheaper an more available than they have been in the last 7-8 years. Buy the best examples that you can find, many have badly neglected bores.

The mausers that I've owned and shot tend to be better shooters than most mosins, with the exception of Finn built mosins, but with surplus ammo, if you can find it, the difference isn't much.

If you want my advice, skip the mausers and mosins- the cheap ones are a neat novelty and the more expensive models are getting much more expensive, and get a K-31 while you still can. I bought my first K-31 about 4 years ago and it took me awhile to warm up to it, but right now I snap up every one that I can find if its priced under $150- which is getting much harder to find. They still are the best milsurp bang for the buck out there for around $200/ea by a long shot.

FWIW, K-31s are similar to the swede mausers- nobody wanted them for a long time when they cost $<100, but once they caught on, they sold out quickly and prices went up dramatically. I pretty much expect K-31s to be selling for over $300 in a few years time.

I pretty much expect K-31s to be selling for over $300 in a few years time.

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I just paid $300 for mine, which could have been bought for $150 two years ago.

There's really no reason to choose between a mosin or mauser, get one of each. One costs less than a case of ammo for the other.

I must agree though, that if you want the BEST shooting milsurp: Go K31. Wolf now sells ammo that's perfectly reloadable so I don't think Ammo should be a concern at this point.

You should be able to find a K31 at any online outlet that sells other surps. Unfortunately they almost never show up at pawn shops or gun stores, your best bet to hold one first is likely at your local gun show.

If you try the gunshow method for the K31, arrive as EARLY as possible, on the FIRST day. They are sold probably faster than any other milsurp gun. People come in and powerwalk to all the milsurp dealers looking specifically for K31s.

Here's a once-in-a-lifetime K31 on Gunbroker right now:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85466235