Is a shotgun the right HD weapon for me?

Good questions.

I think of redundancies when it comes to HD. A SXS would be a great addition to your CZ. Mainly it provides more knock down power compared to the 9mm.

On ammo, can you get tungsten ammo instead of steel? It has a higher density which will help. At HD distances, steel should not be an issue. Shooting ducks and geese the steel looses some knock down power.

A SXS has a good look from the front


Good luck and let us know what you pick. By the way, my SXS is a 1930 Western Arms (Ithaca Arms) with dual triggers and concealed hammers.

I have little experience with steel shot, so I will let someone else advise you on that.

I wouldn't feel underarmed with a shotgun with 2 rounds. What is important is that you get really proficient with whatever you choose. I know that with a good pump gun you can put a round down range about every 2 seconds with an empty magazine if you have practiced and know how to manipulate the weapon. I suspect that the same would be true with a break open gun whether over under or side by side.

The 12 /70 and 12 / 76 equates to what we refer to here as 12 ga 2 3/4" or 12 ga 3". This refers to length of the shells, and thus the shot capacity. Given steel shot only, the 3", or 76mm might be a good choice. You can fire the 70mm shells in it too, so it would be my choice for versatility if for no other reason.

4) If you were me, given the circumstances, would you rather rely on 15 rounds of 9mm or 2 rounds of buckshot?

Click to expand...

Why choose? I keep both handy (Remington 870, Glock 19). My training has been along the lines that the pistol is support for your long gun. It is a go to if the long gun fails or runs out of ammunition.

It is a strange world. You are ok to own a 9mm High capacity handgun, but can't have a shotgun with more than 2 rounds? I know, I am trying to apply logic where none exists. I keep telling myself "It's politics, it's politics, it's not supposed to make sense!!"

If you are limited to two rounds, I think a SxS or O/U would be excellent. A SxS has the advantage of not having to be broken open as far in order to reload but less expensive SxS shotguns usually only have extractors and not ejectors. An O/U has a longer arc to break it open to reload but that is offset by the fact that most O/Us have ejectors which greatly speed up reloading. I agree that steel shells will not be an issue at defense ranges. I would go for the largest steel shot I could buy. With steel it would be better to have a bit more open chokes, generally nothing tighter than modified which I believe in Europe is called "1/2". Tighter than that could cause problems either in pattern or even barrel damage especially with larger steel shot which doesn't compress as readily through a tight choke. Most defense shotguns have pretty open chokes anyway. In either case, after two rounds you still have your CZ which is a superb handgun.

Steel shot weighs less than lead so it lacks the penetration and range of lead. However, at home defense ranges, I do not think anyone would notice.

Since you only have two shots, get the 12/76. An often overlooked advantage of the SxS is that you can get two shots off faster than any other firearm that I know about.

If you can get a shotgun with buckshot on target, it will do considerably more damage at indoor home defense ranges than a hand gun. The downside to a shotgun for home defense is that it is heavier and more awkward, and therefore slower to get on target at indoor ranges than a handgun. I prefer the handgun in extremely close quarters.

I would get a shortest-barrel, longest-chamber double-barrel shotgun that you are allowed.

For that matter, I would venture to guess that in almost any country in the world more intruders or varmints have been stopped with single-shot, break-open shotguns than any other weapon. Even the magazine fed, bolt-action guns would be a whole lot better than nothing. That's one in the chamber, two in the magazine, is that allowed?

Then get a bunch of cheap ammo and practice, practice, practice. Does anyone even make steel buckshot? For actual home defense use, get the largest steel shot (smallest number shot size) you can get.

At home defense distances, I doubt any bad guy is going to stay around to debate the finer points of shotgun use. Plus, you are better off than a great many people in the world in that you are able to have a handgun as backup.

Have you considered two inexpensive but reliable shotguns?

Quite frankly, two shots is a lot of hot metal flying toward an assailant in a home defense scenario...steel or lead.

Depending on your living arrangement, you will want to tailor the size of you shot. If you live in very close proximity to others such as an apartment, you will want smaller shot. At 10 or 20 feet (3 - 6 meters), that small shot will do nearly as much damage to the target. If you live in a city but have a little room (maybe 10 - 15 meter rangers), you'd want larger shot. Here in the States, most people feel that #4 shot is about the best all around.

You will never be or feel undergunned with a double barrel shotgun!

dbl bbl sounds good, but you wont have the "rack the bolt sound" that apparently leaves intruders crapping their pants on their way out the door... /sarcasm

seriously though, with a bit of practice, you can shoot a lot of rounds through an sxs very quickly (mount the extra rounds on the buttstock)

lots of good advise on shot guns,i myself have a F N police special,its not as long as most shot guns,but legal size,makes for better control in tight spaces,and i also believe that the sound of racking a round is enough to make most think twice about staying,as far as the amount of rounds allowed i dont know,i leave mine unloaded,because of my kids,i know you can have trigger locks,but think its faster to load then to try to unlock

I'm old enough to remember switching to steel vs. lead for waterfowl hunting here. They're less effective on birds becaue they zing right through whereas lead shot would not (and dump all the energy into the bird).

That said, on people sized targets a 12/76 (or even better 12/89 - [3.5"]) with steel shot sized BB or larger would be devastating to a person at close range. . . get the shortest barrel SxS or O/U you can find with cylinder chokes. I would wonder if you can get the non-toxic heavy waterfowl loads we have here like hevishot, tungsten matrix or bismuth? Those would be as effective as lead.

Can you get a short barrelled shotgunj in your country? If so it would be an excellent supplement to your CZ. I hear in many areas of Europe the use of the shotgun in an anti personnel role is not common and looked down upon.

Hey Ninja

If all you want is a house gun, then a short bbl pump loaded with birdshot will do the trick.

The short barrel for close encounter, and the birdshot to prevent your neighbors from being shot. Them Buckshot travel a long ways.

Sagetown

What is it that makes O/U so much better than SxS that no one seems to want to make them any more?

Seems to me to be a matter of 'fashion' as much as anything else. There are some good SxS doubles being made in various countries these days, but a lot of less expensive O/Us.

Seems that your selection process is going well, and you are learning more about your local options. If you can find a SxS you like that is made by a manufacturer one of your local shops has in stock, perhaps they can order one for you.

Practice with whatever ammunition is cheap, shoot enough tungsten to get accustomed to its recoil and check its patterns, and don't worry about it.

I don't blame you for not wanting to bother with a pumpgun if you are limited to two rounds. Might as well use a double barrel of whichever configuration you can easily get and be done with it.

Ask your local dealers about getting a Stoeger, the company is owned by Beretta and manufactures a wide assortment of firearms to include both SxS and O/U shotguns.

Stay Safe,

lpl/nc

What is it that makes O/U so much better than SxS that no one seems to want to make them any more?

Click to expand...

There is only one barrel to sight down and they are slimmer. Whether that is better or not is a matter of opinion.

I know some people recommend bird shot but home invaders do not always give you a full frontal shot. I am not sure bird shot would penetrate the right outside sleeve of a heavy coat, the humerus, the inside sleeve, the side of the coat, some ribs, and still get into the engine room with enough velocity to do enough damage.

Now you're talkin my language. I like the SxS's, like this little 'Mule Ear' 1870 Colt Replica Stagecoach 12ga. I keep it close by.


But, I do have a long barrel too. I think it is a 28" old 1976 FOX B 20ga I picked up at the gun show last year.

Well you alrady have one cz, I know they do a coach gun SxS. Don't know if it's available in your neck of the woods. Also, a cylinder bore (no choke) should be acceptable for home defense uses so just a cut down of the barrel shouldn't cost too much.

I gather from other posts from Europe that the Russian Baikal shotguns are fairly common there and generally well-received. They are not as pretty as some guns and are sometimes a little rough, but their side-by-sides are built on a very good and very strong action and they seem to work quite well. I have a couple of them imported under the Remington label "Spartan" but they are the same IZH43 sold as Baikals over much of Europe. They do make several versions of 20 inch SxS double barrels, without external and with external hammers. Check

http://www.baikalinc.ru/en/company/open/weapon.html

Perhaps there is someone in Scandinavia that imports these.

You might also ask about the Stoeger SxS shotguns. Stoeger is now owned by BenelliUSA but it was previously owned by the Finnish Rifle manufacturer, Sako. When Beretta purchased Sako, Stoeger was placed under Benelli, also owned by Beretta. The Stoeger side-by-sides are manufactured in Brazil and have a good reputation among Cowboy Action Shooters in the U.S.

Of course, you know about the CZ shotguns. They are imported by CZ and manufactured in Turkey.
Here at least, the CZ guns are considerably more expensive than the Baikals and Stoegers.

Good luck in your quest.

i think the shot only becomes an issue when hunting,dont see why steel shot at 12 feet wouldent do the trick,also for me i find a pump gun is best