Owner of broken rifle surrenders for 30-month sentence

C. Rabbit wrote:

Arguing that [stupid gun control law] should not be a law in the first place seems to be much more productive than trying to convince people to call it something besides a law.

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I am not arguing that we should call it something different, I am arguing that it is something different. A law is not merely a man with power or group of men with power making an edict and enforcing it with violence, is it? No. A law must, by nature, be an ordinance of right reason, and must actually protect the equal rights of individuals. To be a law, a decree may not merely be intended to protect the equal rights of individuals, but actually and effectively protect the equal rights of individuals.

C. Rabbit wrote:

A rose by any other name smells as sweet, after all.

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Analogically speaking, some people are not bothered by the smell of decaying corpses that are the fruit of their flawed ideas. I'm trying to convince them that they should be bothered by the fruits of their ideas. And that they should change the way they think.

-Sans Authoritas

Crimenys

In before the lock...

Let's try t oget back to the original post:

A guy messed around with his AR to make it more prone to firing burst. iirc, he even went so far as to brag that he knew ways he could stack loose tolerances together on "worn" parts to make a gun more likely to fire burst.

Should that take 30 months (or even 30 days) off of his life? Hell, no. The ATFE does it, again. The whole soft-primered ammo shaft job again. This coming from a department who seriously considered FAL kits that had been sawn into three pieces viable machine guns because they could zip-tie and duct-tape the pieces together and get them to fire one shot.

"Always Think Forfeiture Everyday" is their motto, right?

About time we reigned in this attack dog, let them focus on the A, the T and the E a little more and leave the F's alone.

Once a machine gun, always a machine gun regardless if the gun is brokern or not.

'Tis very simple really. The act of building a Machine Gun takes $200 bucks from the ATF and gives Heartburn to the likes of the director of the FBI.

Fact of the matter is that the government will spend MILLIONS to bust Joe Average gun owner.

MUCH better idea to NOT mess around with Full Auto guns and stay WELL below their radar!

I'd just like to take the opportunity to remind everybody that we have no real idea of knowing just how far the violation of our rights in this post 9/11 world go, we just know what we're told on the news.

I'd advise you to think carefully about what you say about hating the law, hating the government and thinking that it's alright to violate whatever you please so long as nobody finds out or gets hurt. As easy as it is to get put on the no-fly list, you really don't want to wind up on a terrorist watch list; especially with that "no guns for terrorist bill" always floating around.

Just because you can do something without hurting someone, doesn't mean that anybody else can do the same thing and get the same results.

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We're finally in agreement on something. But just because someone else can't do something safely is no reason to prevent me from doing it at all.

To me it looks like the act of manufacturing a machinegun hurts the individual when they get caught. So obviously somebody is getting hurt by the law being violated.

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Wow. So the law is its own reason for existence?

It is illegal to run a red light. It may or may not be immoral to run a red light. When I judge that it is not immoral, I do it.

It is illegal to smoke marijuana. It may or may not be immoral to smoke marijuana. But I never touch the stuff. Does that make me a hypocrite?

Actually, if I spoke out only against laws prohibiting actions that I personally desire to take, that would make me a hypocrite.

Arguing that [stupid gun control law] should not be a law in the first place seems to be much more productive than trying to convince people to call it something besides a law.

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Well, I stay away from the semantics myself. Right is right, and wrong is wrong.

MUCH better idea to NOT mess around with Full Auto guns and stay WELL below their radar!

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Practically speaking, I agree.

I'd advise you to think carefully about what you say about hating the law, hating the government and thinking that it's alright to violate whatever you please so long as nobody finds out or gets hurt. As easy as it is to get put on the no-fly list, you really don't want to wind up on a terrorist watch list; especially with that "no guns for terrorist bill" always floating around.

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It is a concern, and there are lines that I won't cross publicly. Notice I'm speaking only of principle (except for the red lights, and really, they're not gonna send the goons for that yet).

I'd advise you to think carefully about what you say about hating the law, hating the government and thinking that it's alright to violate whatever you please so long as nobody finds out or gets hurt. As easy as it is to get put on the no-fly list, you really don't want to wind up on a terrorist watch list; especially with that "no guns for terrorist bill" always floating around.

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Are you suggesting we all stay as quiet as we possibly can so maybe the nice people in government will perceive us as the non-violent people we are and won't label us "terrorists" anyway? Instead, maybe they'll just leave us alone. Let's just be happy with whatever rights liberties they deign to allow us to exercise. Because that's how future infringements of rights and liberties are prevented.

No.

-Sans Authoritas

ReddBecca wrote:

To me it looks like the act of manufacturing a machinegun hurts the individual when they get caught. So obviously somebody is getting hurt by the law being violated.

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DRZinn wrote:

Wow. So the law is its own reason for existence?

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Aye, DRZinn, some people think that a law can be its own reason for existence. In reality, God is the only entity that is its own reason for existence. It is no exaggeration, therefore, to say that people who believe that law is its own reason for existence are "law worshippers."

But actually, they are not law worshippers. Merely power worshippers. A law first has to be an ordinance of right reason, and must therefore also actually protect the rights of individuals, not merely be intended to protect the rights of individuals. Anything else is merely a man or men with power making any arbitrary decree, then enforcing it with violence.

They unknowingly worship power and the initiation of violence, and place it above reason and justice.

-Sans Authoritas

This is getting a bit deep,lol.. its about people that want to control you and everyone else.. anything else is hyperbole.

The long, fruitless and un-highroad argument about abortions, baby Jesus and the price of fetuses in China is about to disappear. Don't go looking for it; it'll be gone. The rest of this thread will continue until someone on staff gets fed up again; it's up to all of you how long that takes.

This is not a comparative religions discussion board. Nobody cares whether you've accepted Ahura Mazda as your personal savior or not.

This is not an abortion debate board.

If you want to blame the actions of the Chinese government on a member of THR, they'd better be an agent of the Chinese government. Otherwise people may laugh at you.

That is all.

Are you suggesting we all stay as quiet as we possibly can so maybe the nice people in government will perceive us as the non-violent people we are and won't label us "terrorists" anyway? Instead, maybe they'll just leave us alone. Let's just be happy with whatever rights liberties they deign to allow us to exercise. Because that's how future infringements of rights and liberties are prevented.

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I'm suggesting that you exercise common intelligence and engage your brain to think before you open your mouth to speak. This is definitely not a fight that you can win on your own by working in your basement or garage, fiddling with your rifle until you get it capable of automatic fire.

Have you ever heard of public relations? You know, showing that you're reasonable and can be worked with, rather than coming off as extremist nuts who scream "NO COMPROMISES EVER!!!!" and who believe that they should be allowed to own fully nuclear warheads for taking down the government at any given time.

If we're to win anything then we need the support of the public at large behind us. If we alienate them then they'll trust the Brady Bunch. Your suggested way of doing things gives credibility to the anti-gun groups, making us look like unreasonable racist bastards who're looking to murder somebody over a dented fender.

This isn't a fight you can win with the tactics you're supporting. This isn't like the old days when you can easily get away with all kinds of crap because there wasn't advanced technology to counter your maneuvers. You need to be adaptive to win, you need to learn how to fight on all different fronts. You can't just charge in and scream "Down with the laws!" you'll get killed that way, or you'll lose us all of our support and then we'll be fighting alone.

Fight with your head, not your raw emotion.

Reading back over this mess has changed my mind. Zedicus has started a new thread that has a lot more actual information in it anyway, being a summary of the AR15 thread in which the defendant participated. If you're still interested in reading and posting about this case, I suggest you try again in that thread.
I hope it won't get as fractured as this one did.