Anyone ever convicted for 922 (r)?

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Imagine you shoot a rifle rapid fire at the range. An ignorant person calls the police to report someone with a machinegun. An ignorant cop arrests you, and the media reports you have been arrested with an illegal weapon.

They will find you did not have an illegal machine gun. But to avoid looking stupid, they might charge you with a 922 (r) violation.

The same situation could occur if you shot a person in self defense with a non-compliant weapon, and prosecutor wished to make an example out of you. If they couldn't get a conviction on the shooting, they might pile on the illegal weapon charge.

Compliance isn't too hard. ############### against the possiblity of defending yourself in court.
 
Let me throw another monkey into the wrench: There are no laws requiring manufactures to mark their parts "US made".

The burdon of proof is on the BATF, how do they prove that slant brake/ 74 brake/muzzle nut isn't US made? How that wood wasn't US made? That gas piston isn't US made? etc?

Expensive metal testing? Would that even work? What if you modified it? Or the parts made from scrap from China?

Test the wood to see where it came from? What if it was imported from Canada and machined here in the US? The tree grew in BFE and was machined here OR the tree grew here and was machined in BFE?

I'd believe the "add on" charge or if they where trying to shut down a manufacture; basically if you are charged with 922r you have bigger problems.
 
922r has nothing to do with protecting U.S. manufacturers. The rifles that this law is aimed at - AKs, FALs, etc - were not being manufactured in the U.S. in 1968. This has nothing to do with protecting Remington.
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It protected US manufacturers from foreign competition. Ie. buy a Ruger Mini-30 instead of an AK. 922r was passed in 1989, and while AK's, HK's, and FAL's weren't being made here- there was a lot of cheap (and not so cheap) imports that would have threatened the American arms industry. It was a protectionist measure- to protect American manufacturing- even if the exact same products weren't made here. 922r also applies to single shot, double barrel, and pump shotguns (as well as semis). The GCA 1968 sporting purposes test could also be argued to be a trade protection measure as well- the market was being flooded at the time with very cheap imported war surplus rifles and pistols, and saturday night specials made in Germany, Italy, etc...

I don't support these measures, but it is very clear what at the motivations were.
 
It protected US manufacturers from foreign competition. Ie. buy a Ruger Mini-30 instead of an AK. 922r was passed in 1989, and while AK's, HK's, and FAL's weren't being made here- there was a lot of cheap (and not so cheap) imports that would have threatened the American arms industry. It was a protectionist measure- to protect American manufacturing-
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Nope. 922(r) had absolutely nothing to do with protecting US manufacturers.




This law was enacted after BATF used its power, under the Gun Control Act to approve weapons for import, to end the import of some semi-auto long guns that looked like assault rifles, or machine guns, in 1989. See "Report and Recommendation of the ATF Working Group on the Importability of Certain Semiautomatic Rifles", July, 1989. Immediately after, folks discovered they could legally avoid this by making the receivers here, and import the now banned guns as parts kits (all parts but the receiver). In particular a company from Tucson, Arizona known as B-West began to make AK receivers here and assemble them with Chinese AK parts kits, in the regular pre-ban configuration. Thus what had been a new rule from BATF (the import ban) was enacted into law, to stop the domestic making of evil semi-auto long guns out of imported parts. In making regulations to implement this law BATF ignored that aspect of the law's history, and first announced a regulation that a rifle or shotgun would need to only have more than one imported part to be covered by this law, rather than be wholly made out of imported parts. In the face of protest during the comment period, organized in part by the NRA, BATF relented, and rewrote the regulation, (see it below) deciding a semi-auto rifle or shotgun needed to have 11 or more of the parts on a list to be subject to section 922(r), that is to be considered "imported".


http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/semi_auto_faq.txt
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(charge) 4. Attaching bayonets to SKS rifles. This violates 18 U.S.C. § 922(r).
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This charge was common back around 1989. When the import ban started, the Chinese (aka Norinco) simply removed the bayonet from the SKS, stuck it in the box and shipped it to the US. Without the bayonet, the gun was deemed to be "sporting" and legal for import. Once in the country, the dealer would slap the bayonet back on the rifle because everyone wanted them that way. As a result, they got busted.

The problem today is that thousands of Norinco SKSs were imported before the ban that can have a bayonet and thousands after the ban that cannot. As expected, the importation records suck, so proving anything is next to impossible. This was also way before the Russian/Yugo/Etc. SKSs were deemed C&R by ATF and imported in the millions with bayonets attached. ATF would look stupid taking some dude to court for having an illegal Chinese SKS w/ bayonet when the market is flooded with SKSs w/ bayonets.
 
Note that it is the ACT of assembling a firearm that is illegal, not possession of a firearm that has already been assembled.
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So if I buy a rifle already assembled in violation of 922(r), I have not broken any laws? Just have to make sure the bill of sale clearly shows ownership it, but cannot be traced back to the seller.

(This post does not advocate the breaking or circumventing any laws, either in letter or spirit.)
 
It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to—
(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.


So if you don't assemble the rifle you should be ok? It says nothing about possessing a rifle.
 
So if you don't assemble the rifle you should be ok? It says nothing about possessing a rifle.
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IF you can prove it came that way and you didn't modify it yourself.

Might be difficult to do.
 
IF you can prove it came that way and you didn't modify it yourself.
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Is the Constitution totally null and void now? They have to prove you assembled, not the other way around! Or has innocent until proven guilty been totally reversed? It certainly has been has with domestic "restraining orders".

--wally.
 
Two thoughts here:

1. The operative words are "assemble from imported parts"

and

2. The susgestion was made that the burden of proof of a violation is on the BATF. Well, in the perfect world that might be true but in this less than perfect judicial system of ours any agency can charge you and you have to hire an Attorney to prove your innocence. Tell me now where the burden of proof REALLY is?
 
Who wanted to be the first not to ride at the back of the bus?
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Rosa Parks did, but I don't really see your point.

Assembling a gun which looks, operates, feels, tastes, sounds, and smells exactly like a LEGAL gun does isn't really a bold form of symbolic protest.
 
I don't see it ever happening.

I think 922r is more for importers and dealers to worry about, Joe Blow gun owner who has an AK that is one compliant part short will be just fine. How is anyone to ever find out? The fact is police and ATF don't go around dismantling peoples guns for no reason just to count your US made parts.

The fact is if the authorities are ripping apart your guns to find out if you have a compliant firearm they must really be desperate to nail you for something:rolleyes:

For many years I had never even heard of 922r and it wasn't until I actually joined THR that I found out the details of it. I'm sure in the past I've owned guns that were not compliant and had I known I would have corrected the problem. The fact is I didn't know and I'm sure there are thousands of law abiding gun owners out there who still don't know and who currently have non-compliant guns.

The fact is if you're not an importer or firearms dealer I seriously doubt 922r is ever going to be an issue to worry about for the average gun owner. I think the authorities have more pressing concerns to deal with than whether your gun has the proper number of US part in it.

Of course the law is as the law does and you are better off complying with the law if you know about it.
 
They were absolutely laissez fair about firearms, the AWB, magazines and 922r unless you were committing a "real crime".
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Yeah, real crimes like using abbreviations on 4473 forms.
 
Recently there has been an issue with parts which were obviously foriegn parts but which were refinished and stamped with US MADE. The recent ATF paper regarding refinishing = gun manufacture kind of muddied the water a bit- since there is no 80% rule for small parts, what constitutes US manufacturing?

If you buy some Steyr hammers in the white and parkerize them in the US is that US MADE? If you buy a hammerforged barrel blank in Belgium and finish it in the US is it US MADE? If you buy a foreign muzzle brake and machine off the end to make a shorty brake, is that manufacturing and US MADE? If you take foreign magazine floorplates, clean them up and stamp them US, is that a US MADE part?

So far nobody is saying & nobody wants to be the one to get caught with the hot potato.
 
Deva ju... I just came over from TFL.

My answer there and here on 922:

On 922 generically: people are investigated and prosecuted for violations regularly.

On 922r specifically: people are investigated and prosecuted for it.

And on how that may come to be? Well, many ways, from straight up investigation into a specific 922 violation (typically the by the ATF, ICE, or FBI) or a referral of services of sorts, where another agency (local, state, federal) asks a federal agency (usually the ATF, but it can also be ICE or the FBI. Maybe others?) to examine seized firearms and advise of further charges as appropriate.
 
I'd like to know that myself. I am buying a vz58 and I'm being told if I use a military mag, I will be violating 922(r)
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It depends. The magazine body, spring and floorplate count as three parts in the parts count game. If the person doing your conversion included those as his US made parts, using an imported magazine will place you in violation.

And yes, every time you insert the imported magazine, you are "assembling" an illegal rifle.
 
It depends. The magazine body, spring and floorplate count as three parts in the parts count game. If the person doing your conversion included those as his US made parts, using an imported magazine will place you in violation.

And yes, every time you insert the imported magazine, you are "assembling" an illegal rifle.
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oh, centerfire includes the magazines but I don't know if the parts are replaced or not. It's some kit they sell for 60 dollars for 4 mags.
 
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