turbohardtop
Member
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- Mar 20, 2006
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How many of you believe barrel break-in is necessary? I heard that the cleaning for the breaking in process actually hurts more than help. What are your thoughts. Thanks.
Barrel break-in?
- Thread starter turbohardtop
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There's a lot of opinion on the subject:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=389866&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=392814&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=375277&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=375052&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=350706&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=321385&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=317039&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=191614&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=389866&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=392814&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=375277&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=375052&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=350706&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=321385&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=317039&highlight=barrel+break
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=191614&highlight=barrel+break
Hk91-762mm
Member
I have a M-14 NM,,I tried the break in drill...It shot 2in groups at 100yds.. No good -- After playing clean shoot -clean ----- I got fustrated and dumped a 20rnd mag full down range as fast as I could twitter the finger ..
After that it shot 1in groups with milsurp. Ammo--Go figure...
After that it shot 1in groups with milsurp. Ammo--Go figure...
theken206
Member
tbtrout
Member
Never did it never will.
Not too long ago, there was a thread on the firing line forum (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12582) pertaining to barrel break-in that had an interesting post. It read:
"The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in evey barrel he shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20 rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in"
"The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in evey barrel he shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20 rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in"
Old Grump
Member
I have seen shooters clean their gun every time their relay came off the line, some at the end of the day and most of us after we went home after a 2 or 3 day match. Shot a lot and cleaned the gun once a week whether it needed it or not when just practicing. Can't see where it hurt the gun any and my 308 shoots better than I can and it only gets cleaned after I come off the range with anywhere from 10 to 100 rounds through it. The only observation I make to breaking in a barrel is running a boresnake or a rod with a brass brush in one direction only chamber to muzzle. My 300 Weatherby Mag gets the same treatment and after approximately 300 rounds it is just now starting to shoot tight groups, I think its the shooting that breaks in the gun not the cleaning. But there is a lot I don't know and I may be wrong on this but its worked for me for 49 years of shooting.
Liberty1776
Member
ok, flame me, but.... before I shoot a rifle for the first time, whether new or used gun, I pull a boresnake through 3-4 times. That's it. (and actually, the gun may never get cleaned again...don't tell, OK?)
Omaha-BeenGlockin
Member
All BS---just clean and shoot normally.
alsaqr
Member
One has to go to the range at the witching hour on Whitsuntide and chant over the gun before ritually cleaning it with hemlock.
Never have and never will.
I have rifles that are as old as 44 years old that were shot right out of the box and sometimes as much as three boxes of hunting ammo went thru them in a day at the range.
And still when i am on they shoot at least a one inch group and this with your standard cup and core hunting ammo.
Fad,opinion,etc.
I have rifles that are as old as 44 years old that were shot right out of the box and sometimes as much as three boxes of hunting ammo went thru them in a day at the range.
And still when i am on they shoot at least a one inch group and this with your standard cup and core hunting ammo.
Fad,opinion,etc.
Jim Watson
Member
Mr MacMillan no longer being in the barrel business, I just followed the instructions with my Krieger and Pac-Nor barrels and went through the break in shoot and clean ritual.
I don't think that ate up much barrel life, 13 shots through the Krieger and 30 through the Pac-Nor, AND I had my scope settings established for at least a couple of ranges.
I don't think that ate up much barrel life, 13 shots through the Krieger and 30 through the Pac-Nor, AND I had my scope settings established for at least a couple of ranges.
moooose102
Member
lot of controversy over this. my opinion is this. (which has changed recently) look down the bore of the rifle with a light on the far end. if the bore looks rough, buy a box of david tubbs final finish system bullets and shoot them through following the instructions. if the barrel looks smooth, shoot it, cleaning it when you are done. just do not get the barrel HOT for the first 100 rounds or so. i would clean the barrel after every 20 shots for the first 100 rounds as well. other than that, go enjoy your rifle.
I don't think Weedmonkey's post meant anything about barrel life. The manufacturer was just taking advantage of target shooter's (perhaps) arbitrary 3000 round cutoff for their barrels. By getting them to put an extra 100 rounds through it right away, he hastened them towards the 3000 round cutoff, not necessarily towards shorter barrel life.
~Dale
~Dale
I bought in on the hype and tried a set procedure, once, A real PIA and I did not see any better result than the older guns which I took out , shot, took home then cleaned in a few days. I started with a Win 70 ftw 30-06 back in 1963, and alternated with jacketed and cast bullets and never had any problems either with leading or cleaning. In my younger days I generally shot a couple of jacketed bullets after a cast session as it seemed to make cleaning easier. That rifle still has a very smooth shiney bore.
spwenger
Member
I Have Done It...
...with a couple of rifles. I am unable to comment on any difference in accuracy but I did notice that each barrel reached a point, somewhere within the the 20 rounds I used for break-in, where it became significantly easier to clean.
(The break-in theory is that the bullet, despite being softer than the steel of the barrel, moves fast enough that it will burnish any burrs left in the barrel, so long as the jacket material stripped off by those burrs is removed between shots. When those burrs are burnished flat, they are not as likely to strip off as much jacket material.)
...with a couple of rifles. I am unable to comment on any difference in accuracy but I did notice that each barrel reached a point, somewhere within the the 20 rounds I used for break-in, where it became significantly easier to clean.
(The break-in theory is that the bullet, despite being softer than the steel of the barrel, moves fast enough that it will burnish any burrs left in the barrel, so long as the jacket material stripped off by those burrs is removed between shots. When those burrs are burnished flat, they are not as likely to strip off as much jacket material.)
spwenger -
The theory you state is unsound at best. There is not enough abrasive properties in a normal bullet or jacket to cause the flattening you describe. What is more likely happening is that the "pores" or rougher spots in the bore are being filled by jacket material, making them appear flatter.
Think about this:
1. You put some rounds down range, change your zero by "filling up" the rough spots and "flattening" the bore.
2. You clean the bore, removing the freshly flattened spots and making them rough again.
3. Repeat.
What have you accomplished? You wasted some money on rounds and cleaning supplies.
In my experience, and advice given to me by shooters far more competent than I, it does more for your groups to not clean the barrel *at all* than to get anal retentive about a shoot-one/clean cycle.
Of course, this is all relative to commercial barrels, and a barrel that has been hand-lapped and bore scoped may actually do better with more regular cleaning. I wouldn't know, because I don't own a hand-lapped custom made barrel.
The theory you state is unsound at best. There is not enough abrasive properties in a normal bullet or jacket to cause the flattening you describe. What is more likely happening is that the "pores" or rougher spots in the bore are being filled by jacket material, making them appear flatter.
Think about this:
1. You put some rounds down range, change your zero by "filling up" the rough spots and "flattening" the bore.
2. You clean the bore, removing the freshly flattened spots and making them rough again.
3. Repeat.
What have you accomplished? You wasted some money on rounds and cleaning supplies.
In my experience, and advice given to me by shooters far more competent than I, it does more for your groups to not clean the barrel *at all* than to get anal retentive about a shoot-one/clean cycle.
Of course, this is all relative to commercial barrels, and a barrel that has been hand-lapped and bore scoped may actually do better with more regular cleaning. I wouldn't know, because I don't own a hand-lapped custom made barrel.
Barrel break in
It depends.
It depends on if you are shooting pistol or rifle (don't waste your time/money with a pistol).
It depends on what "acceptable accuracy" means to you. If you are content with one minute of angle, you do not need to "break in" your rifle.
It depends on how you "clean" your rifle. If you use a brass or copper brush every time, don't waste your time on break in.
I have a Winchester Heavy Barrel Varmint in .223. It was shooting about one minute of angle. After some of the high power guys talked to me, I did the full break in on the rifle. Three shot group (after break in) .35" outside to outside. In that rifle IT WORKS (and it has on two others, but not in one other).
It depends.
It depends.
It depends on if you are shooting pistol or rifle (don't waste your time/money with a pistol).
It depends on what "acceptable accuracy" means to you. If you are content with one minute of angle, you do not need to "break in" your rifle.
It depends on how you "clean" your rifle. If you use a brass or copper brush every time, don't waste your time on break in.
I have a Winchester Heavy Barrel Varmint in .223. It was shooting about one minute of angle. After some of the high power guys talked to me, I did the full break in on the rifle. Three shot group (after break in) .35" outside to outside. In that rifle IT WORKS (and it has on two others, but not in one other).
It depends.
The Bushmaster
Member
Oh break the damn thing in and be done with it. Ya have to shoot it anyway so do it right...Anything new must have a break in period.
308sc
Member
Hell no I don't believe in it. I shoot how much I want in 1 session and clean it very thoroughly after and It shoots better or just as good as my buddies guns.
spwenger
Member
There's a Saying in Science...
I did not create the theory I cited, I merely repeated the argument to which I was exposed when I decided to break in the barrel of my first precision rifle. I lack the instrumentation to have examined the bore microscopically, which might have given me the basis to dispute your claim. So... I'll just stick with my empirical observation that the barrel on my Remington TSW became noticeably easier to clean at around 17 rounds (Remington barrels are reputed to use very hard steel) and that Walther match barrel that I made the mistake of having installed on a Mini-14 became noticeably easier to clean at around 17 rounds.
...Fact is the greatest enemy of theory.
I did not create the theory I cited, I merely repeated the argument to which I was exposed when I decided to break in the barrel of my first precision rifle. I lack the instrumentation to have examined the bore microscopically, which might have given me the basis to dispute your claim. So... I'll just stick with my empirical observation that the barrel on my Remington TSW became noticeably easier to clean at around 17 rounds (Remington barrels are reputed to use very hard steel) and that Walther match barrel that I made the mistake of having installed on a Mini-14 became noticeably easier to clean at around 17 rounds.
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