Breaking in a new Barrel

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simply because the "experts" know barrels aren't identical, even from the same run.

mike1234567 and m-cameron, read krieger's explanation of what is actually happening and how break in is supposed to fix it. then please propose a SCIENTIFIC test that would satisfy you.
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i still dont see why testing 2 lots of barrels wouldnt be acceptable....

take a dozen barrels........"break-in" half of them.......shoot an equivalent number of rounds through the other half.........give both barrels a good cleaning.........and shoot a series of groups with each barrel.

and depending on how in depth you wanted to go......you can test for accuracy, bore scope the barrels after every group and check for fouling build up, and if you really had some time you could check for barrel life.

if someone did that, and got better results with the "broken-in" barrels... then i would be pretty convinced.
 
How many of you have had formal gunsmith training to back up your statements? Or, are you just posting third hand information from the internet or magazines? I hear alot of theroy here but no proof of practical application other than "someone said".....chris3
 
I took a Schnieder barrel in 280AI and while fire forming the brass I cleaned it after every shot until it did not pick up any copper on the lands at the muzzle. I don't remember how many shots it took but it was twenty or thirty.

One doesn't need gunsmith traing to see copper in the bore shined up by Sweets.

Now, there is no way to tell whether the rifle shoots any better. But, it is easier to clean.

And, to think there is nothing happening in the bore to cause the rifle to slowly stop picking up copper is just silly.
 
This month's Rifle magazine has an interesting article written by John Haviland entitled "Barrel Break-in Voodoo". I won't try to encapsulate all of the points he made here; only that, although he acknowledged that various rifle and rifle barrel makers have recommended their own (and differing) recipes for properly breaking-in their barrels (including Lilja, Howa, Krieger,and the Montana Rifle Company), after running his own extensive tests and using the Hawkeye Borescope and Video Kit from the Gradient Lens Corporation to monitor and detect any meaningful changes in the barrels' conditions, Mr. Haviland concluded:"...The Hawkeye borescope, however, did not show that the regimen of shooting one or a few shots followed by cleaning altered the rifle's bore in any way, helpful or otherwise. So I'm going to put barrel break-in under the category of 'It doesn't hurt anything, and if it makes someone feel like they have accomplished something, go for it.' ".
 
If the manufacturer gives instructions ref: barrel break in, whick sometime they do, then just follow the directions. If they don`t, none may be required.

I don`t think I ever "broke in a barrel." No negative side-effects. All is good.
 
taliv said:
simply because the "experts" know barrels aren't identical, even from the same run.
Click to expand...

This is why you use more than two barrels for the comparison. As long as the barrels are randomly selected from a pile off of the same machinery, in the same run, from the same operator, you will either begin to see a statistically significant variation, or you won't.

The variations in the barrels themselves will average out an your left only with the difference caused by the break-in procedure.
 
kludge said:
This is why you use more than two barrels for the comparison. As long as the barrels are randomly selected from a pile off of the same machinery, in the same run, from the same operator, you will either begin to see a statistically significant variation, or you won't.

The variations in the barrels themselves will average out an your left only with the difference caused by the break-in procedure.
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Do I understand correctly that for the results to be considered statistically significant, the variation of the two groups must be larger than the average variation of each barrel, against each barrel in its group?
 
*munching popcorn*

Waste of time and you'll scratch up your bore with cleaning rods faster than you will improve anything. JMHO, confirmed by nothing, except to say that brass and copper jackets are softer than bore steel.

back to the popcorn
 
Flopsweat said:
Do I understand correctly that for the results to be considered statistically significant, the variation of the two groups must be larger than the average variation of each barrel, against each barrel in its group?
Click to expand...

It all depends on what you decide is "significant". Funny thing... you can have statistical "significance" even when the difference is "unimportant". There's your oxymoron for the day.

You can have a very large sample size and therefore have high confidence that the difference is real... even if the difference is tiny... meaning you could choose one random rifle from each group and compare how they shoot, and have an almost equal chance that the rifle from the "less accurate" group is more accurate than the one from the "accurate" group.
 
my worthless opinion is:
follow manufacturer's instructions to maintain that warranty.
also:
I understand copper will foul a new bore quickly due to machining burrs, if you just remove the copper during the first 10 shots you aid in the burnishing process.

Certainly more harm is done by improper cleaning techniques
 
I think I'll shoot just one perfectly sized solid chrome-molly steel bullet embedded with fine diamond dust as the inital round. BANG!! Barrel is deburred... or it'll blow apart.:D
 
kludge said:
It all depends on what you decide is "significant". Funny thing... you can have statistical "significance" even when the difference is "unimportant". There's your oxymoron for the day.

You can have a very large sample size and therefore have high confidence that the difference is real... even if the difference is tiny... meaning you could choose one random rifle from each group and compare how they shoot, and have an almost equal chance that the rifle from the "less accurate" group is more accurate than the one from the "accurate" group.
Click to expand...
Thanks!
 
Now to really stoke the fires.
Couldnt you just shoot some of those bullets that are coated in various grit to remove all of the burrs in one felled swoop. Aside from shortening barrel life what is the down side?
Just curious but afraid to try it myself.
T
 
because, on a decent match grade barrel like a krieger, it usually only takes <5 regular rounds to smooth the throat and stop copper fouling anyway, and the regular rounds don't screw up the hand-lapping that was done to the bore.

so why would you want to run bullets with grit on them down the bore if you don't need it?
 
taliv said:
because, on a decent match grade barrel like a krieger, it usually only takes <5 regular rounds to smooth the throat and stop copper fouling anyway, and the regular rounds don't screw up the hand-lapping that was done to the bore.

so why would you want to run bullets with grit on them down the bore if you don't need it?
Click to expand...

Hand lapping is the reason why probably all my future bolt rifles will have custom barrels. I'm hooked after my first one. It's a breeze to clean.
 
Good to know after 300 rounds my Rem 700 in .223 is still a major pain it takes an hour to get it spotless. I have no accuracy complaints but the cleaning is gettin old. At this rate it may get rebarreled before its time but I hate to change a good shooter. With my luck the next barrel will clean up easily but cost me accuracy.
T
 
A good friend of mine had a Model 70 XTR in 7 Rem Mag. We used to shoot about 40 rounds every Sunday, sometimes out to 600 yards. I'm sure we shot over 1000 rounds. He killed several dozen deer with it. The rifle was always good for 1 MOA or better.

He never cleaned the barrel the entire time he had it.
 
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