advice on sentimental revolver refinishing

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redbandit98

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Well, I have been pondering this for a long time so Im going to ask you guys for your thoughts. This will probably be a little lengthy so Im sorry in advance. I have a 38 LC I believe its around WWII era. Never ran the numbers on it. The deal is the revolver is in awefull shape, I believe its been re-blued once in its lifetime and the cyld is just horrible. 4 out of 10 times, the cyl wont turn as the gear (forgive my ignorance i dont know the proper name for it) is worn out. You pull the hammer back and the cyl just stays there trying to move. Anyways, this was my grandpas before he died. Im trying to decide if I want to spend the money and get it refinised and put it in a case for me to pass down to my kids when I have them. The thing is, its not like its been passed down before, or he bought it new/fairly new and put all the wear on it. He bought it about a year before he died at a pawn shop so it was already in bad shape. The point im getting at is I know that most people think that you should just leave it all rusting and in bad shape becuase thats what gives it its character. I just feel that its not relevent in this case due to he didnt put all the wear on it. Make sense? He wanted me to have the gun, and it means the world to me. I think spending the money and having it fixed up and putting it in a case would be nice. Im not going to shoot it. That or I could have it fixed then put a little wear on it myself then put it up. ;) I just dont know what to do. I know it doesnt sound like a huge deal, but its a big deal to me and Im just trying to decide on what to do with it so I can one day send it on its way and continue the tradition.

thanks for reading
matt
 
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I think most folks are sentimental about honest wear, especially in the case of heirlooms. I don't think most folks see honest wear as broken, or rendered unusable.

This is really your decision.
 
You have two issues to consider. The first one is, can the mechanical defects be corrected so that the revolver will work. The second is refinishing.

To go much further we would need to know the model, and the date it was made. That could be determined by the serial number that is probably to be found on the frame behind the crane. The "crane" is the part that holds the cylinder when you swing it out, and you have to open the cylinder to see the serial number.

After the date of manufacture is determined the issue of parts to repair it can be discussed. They may or may not be available.

You can have the revolver refinished, but if it is for a second time many, if not most of the stampings (probably on the barrel) will be removed.

In any case this is likely to run into considerable money, and probably more then the gun is worth. Only you can decide on how much you want to spend on this project.
 
There is nothing wrong with at least trying to make it operable. It also may not be as bad as you think - perhaps it is just very dirty, with decades of congealed oil or grease, which could be fixed with a good cleaning.
 
Numrich Arms should have any parts you need.
About ten years ago I took a "lemon squeezer" 38 S&W that my grandfather left me. Took it to a local smith, replaced $35 worth of parts, polished and re-blued it, gold plated the trigger and release latch. It is now a beautiful piece that has family history.
Go ahead and do it with yours, you won't have another grandpa.
 
I think it's a great idea for you to do this. I'm sure your grandpa would be proud!

Get 'er in working shape first, and see what that's going to cost. Better to sink money into it for it to work, than just to make it look pretty, in my humble opinion :) You never how hard it could be to find parts to fix it up in the future, whereas right now you might be able to get it done easily. I imagine you're looking into passing it on many years from now.

Once it's in great working shape, then look into getting it prettied up and ready for the person you intend to hand it down to. And definitely enjoy it once it functions properly, I'm sure your grandpa would want you to!

Whatever you decide to do, be sure to take extensive before and after pictures to document the process - and for reference by anyone later on. Keep us updated, too! I love reading through people's refinishing/repairs.

Sorry to hear of your grandpa passing, but sounds like he's left something he really cared about with someone he really cared about :)
 
subscribing...


Restoration pricing, as opposed to refinishing, can be staggeringly high priced.
http://www.turnbullrestoration.com/store.asp?pid=20181
And it's not clear how much, if any, lettering recutting, screw hole "undishing" or trademark restoration is included in the rough guideline pricing.

I'm thinking seriously of embarking on an "ala carte" resto where I may very well quit after the hammer and trigger are de-nickeled and possibly re-cased. Depends on how the old boy shoots and finding ammo hasn't gone well so far.

Keep us posted on yours.
 
I usually subscribe to leave it be...In this case if it is out of time on the cylinder etc. go ahead and redo it. You are creating an heirloom for the future --Heck have it engraved as well if you are going to really make it a family piece.

2RCo approves of your endeavor.
 
Hawk:

I'm thinking seriously of embarking on an "ala carte" resto where I may very well quit after the hammer and trigger are de-nickeled and possibly re-cased. Depends on how the old boy shoots and finding ammo hasn't gone well so far.
Click to expand...

Is this a S&W or Colt Single Action Army, Python or what? It do make a difference.
 
well, here are a few quick pics of the revolver. The pics make it look a little better than it really is. All in all, its not toooo bad. I mean there are spots here and there but its not like its just plain rusted out. Anyways the frame, cyl swingout, and cyl release are all stamped with the number "103" . The serial number on the butt of the revolver says 259655 with the 259 and 655 being stacked on top of one another, 259 on top.

thanks
matt
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FIND!

It's an early Colt 1894 New Army and Navy. I'll let the others tell you more about it. It long predates BOTH World Wars.

Geez, I was picturing a rusted ruin.

I'll uh, I'll take it off your hands, if you want to sell ...
 
I kind of dug around on it one day, I couldnt find any websites for the serial numbers. I went away from it all thinking it was some sort of Navy officers model from around WWII. I looked through some pictures and thats all I could come up with. I didnt really dig any deeper because at the time I didnt know exactly what I was going to do with it as far as trying to refinish/fix it.
 
Is this a S&W or Colt Single Action Army, Python or what? It do make a difference.
Click to expand...

S&W 1905 3rd from 1909 through 1915 in .32-20.

Mechanically decent but not what one would call "tight". Nickeled, including hammer and trigger, but lettering and trademark more or less intact. Times OK and doesn't "push off".

Purchased almost strictly due to the influence of one Old Fuff. I would have preferred no nickel / no buff but it could have been worse and I had about given up on finding a long action that wasn't either too nice and priced accordingly or a train wreck. I think I'm seeing what you're talking about with the long action but I wonder if it wouldn't be better still if I removed the nickel.

It's the only S&W I own older than the K-22 post war.
 
If it was me, I'd have it repaired and refinished and shoot it whenever I felt like it. If you're going to hand it down you need to spend some time putting your own marks on it. It's one thing to hand down a safe queen to someone, but to me it's infinitely more special to hand down something you actually used yourself. If my Grandfather had given a gun to me, I know he'd want me using it and If I received a gun I'd want to know the person who gave it to me had used it.

My Grandfather didn't have guns, he valued his tools and I have his old wooden toolbox that his father made for him. Instead of putting it up on a mantle somewhere, I had my Father-in-Law refinish it and now I use it for my gun stuff. My son will get a wooden toolbox made by his great,great grandfather, used by his great grandfather, refinished by his grandfather and used by his father. Keeps the line moving and I hope my son uses the box in his way and passes it to his son.
 
Pictures as they say, are worth 1000 words... :cool:

What you have is a Colt 1892 New Model Army & Navy. It was introduced in 1892, chambered in .38 Long Colt (not .38 Special, which you shouldn’t use in it). Your particular revolver was made during 1906, with production terminating the following year at or around the serial number 290,000 range. Parts are not easy to obtain, and were hand fitted. That’s the reason those parts you mentioned were stamped “130” which is an assembly number used to insure the right parts got back on that frame before the frame was serial numbered. If you do want to get it fixed I would recommend David Chicoine, who will be found at (www.oldwestgunsmith.com). Be aware that the gentleman is highly qualified, but he doesn’t come cheap. Repairs might exceed the market value of the revolver, but not necessarily its value to you.

Your revolver is the civilian version of what was the standard U. S. Military sidearm at the time, and they remained in limited service through at least World War One.
 
I'm surprised the membership here is recommending refinishing. Based on those pictures, all it needs is a little gentle surface rust removal with 0000 wool, stabilization, and light preservative/lubrication oil like 3 in 1. Heck, I can do that in my den; don't even have to go down to the workshop. If the bare areas are "too" bare and are small, some cold blue can touch them up.

Study up on these Colts, get some exploded views and disassembly instructions, buy a set of hollow ground precision screwdrivers (they're cheap), and carefully open her up -- don't booger the screw heads or pry hard on the case; tap it out. You may find dirt and congealed grease gumming up the works. Cleaning may restore most or all functionality. You really ought to do this in the workshop, but the den can suffice in a pinch, given good light and a steady surface. Do NOT try to fabricate or alter internal parts at this stage in your hobby.

NICE gat get.
 
Hawk:

Purchased almost strictly due to the influence of one Old Fuff. I would have preferred no nickel / no buff but it could have been worse and I had about given up on finding a long action that wasn't either too nice and priced accordingly or a train wreck. I think I'm seeing what you're talking about with the long action but I wonder if it wouldn't be better still if I removed the nickel.
Click to expand...

This is a hard call. Stripping the aftermarket nickel plating wouldn't be difficult, but if the metal underneath had been excessively polished that action could end up worse rather then better. You can get the hammer and trigger color casehardened again, but there is always a risk of warpage - which is the reason Colt stopped doing S.A.A. hammers. Anyway I wouldn’t expect fresh, bright colors on a revolver of that age because the colors tend to fade over time. I think if it were mine I’d tend to use it as it is, and continue to look for a similar blued .38 Special. If one were to be found I’d put my money into that, rather then fixing up this one. It’s all too easy to end up with more money in it then the gun is worth.

For a second opinion you might check with David Chicoine at (www.oldwestgunsmith.com). He is reputed to have a horde of older S&W parts that is larger then any man (other then the Old Fuff) has any right to. I believe his son is (or at least was) a member of this forum.

And what is this business of you buying a “long action” S&W behind my back… :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :D :D
 
This particular Coltl can be a :cuss: :cuss: to reassemble. Rather then try to disassemble it I'd suggest that you remove the stocks (and be very careful, they are molded hard rubber and brittle with age. It doesn't take much to chip or crack them) and then submerge the gun in a bath of non-chlorinated brake cleaner. Cover the container and let it soak for a few hours or overnight. Do follow the maker’s instructions concerning ventilation and possible fire hazard. Then blow out the excess with an air hose, or let it drain and evaporate.

This won’t degrade real blue, but might remove some kinds of cold blue. If so you can touch it up afterwards.

Prior to doing this, buy a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil, which you will find at most automobile supply stores (including Wal-Mart). Pour that into a disposable pan and then again submerge the revolver. If you don’t have enough oil to cover the gun turn it over so that all surfaces get covered. After a few hours remove the gun and use an air hose to blow out the excessive oil, or let it drain on some old newspapers. Use rags or paper towels to wipe off exterior surfaces.

While this process isn’t as good as a full strip, clean & lubricate, it is safe and won’t get you in over your head. If something isn’t broken (like a small spring or two) it might solve your problem.

Pour the oil back into the bottle it came in, you can use it over and over.

Dispose of used rags or paper towels – they can be serious fire hazards.
 
Thanks to all that have replied. First off I am aware that it is a 38 long colt. I have no idea why I put 38 special.After seeing the reply I went back and read my original post and felt like an idiot. I guess it was becuase I had just got done replying to a thread where I mentioned a past owned 38 special snubbie. I have only shot the gun once. I shot exactly 3 rounds through it and put it up. I have pondered using some steel wool on it and seeing if the rust would come off. I was kind of scared I would do more harm than good. Obv the front sight blade will need to be touched up if at all possible. Here is what I think Ill do. I will "gently" see if i can get the surface rust that is there off it and rub it down with some oil. Then Ill take it to a friend of the family who is a retired gunsmith. He doesnt work on guns anymore but he will know of a good smith who can take care of me. Hes had a custom 1911 he built on the cover of guns and ammo. Real nice guy. Then, if I can get the thing operational, Im going to shoot it some and put it up. Every now and then ill get it out and run a few rounds through it. I think it will do nicely sitting next to my S+W 25-2 target model 45.

thanks again for all your replies
mg
 
Refinish, or not, as it suits you; but it will never become an heirloom unless you start it on it's way. Do bring it into working condition if possible. Write down the gun's story with your family. Get a picture of you (and your parent's if you should be so blessed) shooting it. Sign, date, and preserve that documentation. Write your great-great-grandchildren a letter about how you enjoyed shooting. Now get enough guns so that each of your great-great-grandchildren can inherit one.

I have the 22 Stevens single shot my great grandfather gave my grandfather when he came back from the Alaskan goldrush. (He was not so foolish as to hunt for gold; he sold whiskey to goldminers in Nome; so he did quite well.) We have no pictures of those two men with that gun, but at least we still have my father; and while I can't convince him to acquire a bunch more firearms so that his heirs will each have one of his, I will leave enough for generations.
-BothellBob
 
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