Arsenal?

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Blondie

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I could not help myself but to comment on this article. There was a horrible shooting in Illinois (which is local for me) but this AP reporter, Tammy Weber, wrote the following story to, I feel, demonize firearm owners. Can anyone point out what is wrong here???

http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov-st-louis-news-090311-church-shooting.2521b30a.html

Church shooting suspect had arsenal in bedroom

ST. LOUIS (AP) -- A man accused of running down and shooting an Illinois pastor to death mid-sermon left an arsenal of guns in his bedroom as well as an index card marked "Last Day Will."

The arsenal in accused gunman Terry Sedlacek's room included two 12-gauge shotguns, a rifle and a box of 550 .22-caliber bullets, according to court documents filed Tuesday.



Watch News 4 coverage
> Larger player The inventory of items seized from Sedlacek's Troy, Ill., home also lists the "Last Day Will" index card but does not detail what else was written on it. Sedlacek's day planner also singled out Sunday as "death day," prosecutor William Mudge has said.

Authorities have said Sedlacek, 27, fired four times from a .45-caliber Glock handgun, hitting the Rev. Fred Winters once with a bullet that ripped through the preacher's heart before he collapsed and bled to death Sunday at First Baptist Church in Maryville, Ill.

Authorities said Sedlacek also brought to the church enough ammunition to perhaps kill 30 people.

Sedlacek is charged with first-degree murder and aggravated battery, the latter charges related to his alleged wounding with a knife of two congregants who wrestled him to the ground and subdued him after the shooting.

Sedlacek remained in serious condition Tuesday in a St. Louis hospital with self-inflicted stab wounds to the throat. One of the injured congregants, Terry Bullard, was upgraded to fair condition.

Investigators say they still haven't pinpointed why Sedlacek allegedly strolled into the church during its early Sunday service, packing a pistol and 30 bullets -- 10 in each of the three magazines he brought along.

A new affidavit by Illinois State Police detective James Walker said Sedlacek entered the sanctuary and walked down an aisle to the front of the church toward Winters, 45, who addressed him.

Walker wrote that Sedlacek then fired at Winters; investigators have said the first bullet clipped the top of the Bible the preacher held, sending pieces of it spraying like confetti and appearing to many of the roughly 150 onlookers to be part of a skit.

Winters then bolted toward the edge of the stage with Sedlacek running parallel to him, Walker wrote.

"Pastor Winters then jumped from the stage where he landed on the ground. Sedlacek then placed himself next to the pastor and fired multiple shots, striking Winters," Walker's affidavit read.

Investigators have said Sedlacek fired four rounds altogether before his gun jammed. After chasing and mortally wounding Winters, Walker wrote, Sedlacek tried to flee but was subdued by Bullard and Keith Melton.

"The way I feel in my heart is my pastor needed help and I had to help. I can't relate that back to anything. That's just how I feel about it," Melton said. "I've been in car accidents before where it seems like it's slow motion. But this was over so fast, it's harder to make sense of it."

It remains unclear whether Sedlacek even knew Winters, a married father of two who led First Baptist Church for nearly 22 years.

Authorities have not revealed the verbal exchange between the gunman and Winters, who was wearing a body microphone. Mudge, Madison County's state's attorney, has listened to the audio recording but won't publicly discuss it, his spokeswoman Stephanee Smith said Tuesday.

Smith also said Sedlacek has previously been issued a firearm owner's identification card, though Illinois State Police spokesman Scott Compton said Sedlacek did not have a valid one.

Sedlacek attended Southwestern Illinois College in Granite City from August of 2006 until May of 2008, pursuing an associate's degree in computer information systems, but never graduated, registration clerk Julie Boeschen said Tuesday.

Calls to the home he shared with his mother and stepfather went unanswered Tuesday, as have repeated visits to the house since the shooting.

Sedlacek's attorney, Ron Slemer, has told the Belleville News-Democrat that his client's family is "very sorry for the pastor's congregation." Slemer also has said Sedlacek has deteriorated both mentally and physically since contracting Lyme disease.

The attorney has not returned numerous messages left by The Associated Press at his home and office.

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Associated Press writer Tammy Webber in Chicago and AP videographer George Wise in St. Louis contributed to this report.
 
Give me a break...I had to stop reading after they called a couple of shotguns and a box of 22s an arsenal...:(
 
Yeah this guy must have dropped a whole $20 on a brick of .22lr.

The press and their fluffery!
 
Hmm. This must be a hoax. It's illegal to carry a gun in Illinois.

Should we make a list of Chicago gun control laws which made this incident worse, or at least did nothing at all to protect anyone? I count at least five.

I'd say given the horrid circumstances that Illinois forces its subjects into, this one turned out incredibly well. Nevertheless, I still sympathize with the pastor's family.

As far as the term "arsenal" goes, don't get too worked up about it. To some people, owning one gun makes you look like a vigilante serial-killer-in-waiting looking to mete out punishment in accordance to the voices in your head that told you to buy the gun in the first place. :rolleyes:
 
I just left a good comment on their comment board concerning what I think of calling 4 guns an "arsenal."
 
hi im new to this forum, could someone please explain to me how to post a thread?ive been trying to ask but no one seems to want to help me out:(
 
Should we make a list of Chicago gun control laws which made this incident worse, or at least did nothing at all to protect anyone? I count at least five.

All of Illinois is not Chicago! This happened about 250 miles from Chicago. There are no Chicago gun laws in effect down here. There are those of us who are getting tired of non residents who think that Chicago is all there is to Illinois.
 
All of Illinois is not Chicago! This happened about 250 miles from Chicago. There are no Chicago gun laws in effect down here. There are those of us who are getting tired of non residents who think that Chicago is all there is to Illinois.

I understand the geography as well as the difference between state statutes and municipal laws, however, all of this stuff:

10 in each of the three magazines he brought along.

Sedlacek has previously been issued a firearm owner's identification card, though Illinois State Police spokesman Scott Compton said Sedlacek did not have a valid one.

...included with the fact that he couldn't legally carry that .45 Glock make it sound exactly like Chicago, because everything listed is exactly the same as in Chicago.

I apologize for missing the location in the first place, although I don't see how it would make any (legal) difference in this situation.
 
Since you are such an expert on the Illinois Compiled Statutes, why don't you just tell me what gun laws were broken here?
 
I claimed to know three Chicago laws and nothing on Illinois statutes. I'm curious to know why those things were mentioned if they weren't even laws by which the assailant had to abide. Just bad reporting?

Could this guy have owned 13-round mags instead of 10?
It looks like there are nothing but municipal magazine capacity restrictions, correct? Aurora, Oak Park, Chicago, Franklin Park, and Riverdale? I find it odd that this guy had three 10-round mags, don't you?

Do you need an FOID in Illinois outside of Chicago?
Looks like "yes". I think I found 'em all actually. http://www.illinoiscarry.com/IlFOID.xls That's unfortunate. I actually thought that was a Metropolitan-area mandate only.

Could he have legally carried a loaded gun on his person into a church?

And "no".

I apologize again for missing the location when reading the article, but maybe you can see why I made the assumption that it occured in Chicago? Two of them were the same, and the other, he was for some reason using a restricted-capacity magazine even when he was nowhere near a municipality which mandated them.

I can also understand how one could be "protective" to a degree of a state which is being altered by one non-representative city, especially if one grew up, or spent a large amount of one's life in that state.
 
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Could this guy have owned 13-round mags instead of 10?

Yes, there are no magazine capacity restrictions outside of Cook County.

Do you need an FOID in Illinois outside of Chicago?

Yes you do, but he had an expired FOID which makes the FOID violation a misdemeanor.

Could he have legally carried a loaded gun on his person into a church?

No he couldn't have. This guy violated two gun laws. Unlawful Use of Weapons for Carrying the loaded gun and a misdemeanor violation of the FOID Act. I doubt he's charged with either violation, murder being the charge they want to convict on.

I would find it peculiar if a loon such as this one would limit his resources on "death day" by abiding by laws which don't apply for 250 miles.

Perhaps the magazines date back to the federal ban. All of the legal magazines under the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban didn't suddenly grow extra capacity when it expired, there are lots of them out there.

Who knows what he was thinking? The guy may never be certified mentally competent to stand trial. I doubt he really thought about breaking firearms laws. I've had to deal with a few loons in my day, and you can't ever figure them out. They get off their meds and you don't know what they might do.

Let me relate a humorous example of how a mentally ill person acts. One night we received a 911 call from a video store in town. The caller stated that a man came in, walked around, asked where the adult section was. The clerk let him into the adult room and went back to the counter. She said she heard a crash and found the man tearing things up in the adult room. He told her "God told me to do that." and walked out the door.

We had two cars there in under 2 minutes. The guy was nowhere to be found. We circled the neighborhood, it was winter, about 8:30 pm and there were no other businesses open in that part of town for him to go to, but it was as if he just vanished. About 20 minutes after we left, the clerk called again and said he was back. "God told me to come back and take responsibility for what I did." he told her.

He was standing there waiting when we arrived. Totally docile. His conversation bounced between scripture and baseball. We get back to the station and take him into the booking room and I suggested to the Sergeant that he call the states attorney and get a reading on what to do with him as he was obviously not sharing the same reality the rest of us were. The states attorney said take him to the ER and do an involuntary committal for evaluation.

In the meantime, he gets into a religious argument with another officer while were booking him. I took the officer aside and reminded him the guy was looney tunes and it was futile to debate him. By tis time the guy was getting hostile and I engaged him in a conversation about his other favorite subject, baseball, to calm him down. Get him booked and take him to the ER and he starts out cooperative until he had to take instructions from a nurse. Then he made some statements about the scripture saying woman was subservient to man and he would not do what that woman told him. He was getting hostile again and I called for backup in case it turned into a fight.

We were at the last stage of the physical, where he had to provide a urine sample for the drug screen and he refused. After a lot of talking we calmed him down, but he was not going to pee in the cup because "that woman" told him to first. After more discussion we ended up restraining him while the urine sample was acquired through the use of a foley catheter.

We undid the restraints after he promised to lay on the gurney in the exam room and left him in there with the curtain half open so I could watch him. He was fine for about an hour, until he suddenly jumped up, walked out of the exam room right towards me and said; "That's a real nice looking gun you have there officer, may I see it?"

At that point he went back into the restraints. In the meantime dispatch had managed to find out that he had walked away from a mental facility in Wisconsin a couple days earlier. It turns out a state trooper had picked him up hitchhiking on the interstate and given him a ride to our town and let him out......The point is, you just don't know what someone who is mentally ill will do. This guy would move from extreme friendliness to hostility very quickly and it was very freaky when he asked to see my weapon. It's just impossible to know what the shooter in this incident was thinking.
 
A Tragedy

It makes me sad to hear of such incidents like this. Someones pint up frustration and anger ended with fatal results.

It should be noted that it is VERY lucky that the shooters glock jammed after the 4th round was fired. It may have been impossible for those in attendance to stop this man before he would have been able to blow through 30 rounds. It sounds to me like the 2 nice folks got the chance to tackle the shooter only becuase his crap glock jammed.

in my opinion this situation exemplifies the importance for concealed carry. Lets say for the sake of argument that the shooters glock had not jammed and he blasted the other 26 rounds into the crowd. How would this situation be stopped? Gun control laws would NOT stop the shooter from acquiring a gun if his heart was really set on shooting this preacher.

IF concealed carry was legal in illinois im sure atleast a few people out of a crowd of 150 would be carrying and would have a better chance of saving lives then not.

more and more were seeing that large congregations of people become targets for madmen with an agenda of death. folks who are a part of these large gatherings MUST have a way to protect themselves and their friends/ family.

I also agree that the term "arsenal" was only used to arouse interest in the article and make it sound like owning more then one gun is a bad thing. Most intellectuals in the press know nothing about firearms and it usually shows.

just my 2 cents.
 
That's an interesting fellow that you dealt with Jeff.

I wasn't really trying to figure out what this assailant was thinking in regard to carrying three 10-round magazines, more so "why?", especially given that he didn't need to. I haven't even seen a restricted capacity Glock mag except in pictures, so it didn't even cross my mind that that would be all that was available to the guy. Good point about the "ban-era" mags though.

I get your point about the mentally-ill though. There's a difference between helping someone and keeping someone from hurting themselves. Trying to understand some people in order to help them is not a possibility, as their thought processes are not comprehendable, by you or themselves.

In my opinion, the mentally-ill are the most touchy and troublesome subject when it comes to the actualization of the Second Amendment.
 
Arsenal Definition

ar se nal

–noun
1. a place of storage or a magazine containing arms and military equipment for land or naval service.
2. a government establishment where military equipment or munitions are manufactured.
3. a collection or supply of weapons or munitions.
4. a collection or supply of anything; store: He came to the meeting with an impressive arsenal of new research data.

Three long guns and some ammo meet definition #3. If I were writing that story I would have used that word somwhere in the copy.
 
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That's pretty much true Torghn! :)

I long to read a news story something like this, absent of bias, and full of truth:

"Police responded to a call placed by a stuttering, frightened woman explaining that she had overheard her neighbor in his backyard talking on the phone and that he had "admitted to owning 'assault rifles', thousands of rounds of armor-piercing ammunition, even a flamethrower'. Police investigated the matter, finding the man at his home, and that all of the alleged items were indeed there.

The woman was given a small fine."

;)
 
Not necessarily to "demonize",but to "sensationalize".Gotta get those subscribers,they pay the payroll...
 
i declare my fists, the most natural assault weapons, issued to me at birth therefore an ambulatory arsenal.

The human hand is the deadliest weapon in the history of mankind. Not only can it be used on its own, it can make and use other weapons of destruction.
 
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