Lee Turret auto-index headache - help plz

I suspect that you do not have the ratchet nut installed properly--that is, IIRC it is possible to put it below the pocket in the indexing 'base.'

Do you have the base tightened up completely? If you do, remove it and look at the 'slots' in it. Close examination will show that the proper slot is 'notched' to hold the ratchet. If your ratchet is not installed in that notched slot, it will slide.

The other related issue is, "which turret?"--i.e., the standard / original 3-hole, or a standard with a 4-die upgrade, or the Classic Cast (4-die) turret? I think the 3-die has a different indexer set of parts--and you may have the wrong one.

(my apologies for being vague--I updated my standard 3-die to the 4-die last year, and I don't remember which version requires which parts anymore.

And, I find that the indexer (ratchet nut) does need replacement about every 5,000 rounds--but, as you may know, it can be damaged easily. Order spares.

Hints, tips and tricks:

1. DON'T USE LUBE. It will just gum up the works
2. The way the ratchet works, it turns freely when at the bottom of the clamp, but engages when floated to the top of the clamp. So when you press down, it floats to the top and engages and turns the index bar
3. Check to see if your turret is too tight. I got a couple of turrets three months ago that stripped out 6 ratchets. I returned them to Lee and explained the problem. They sent 2 new turrets and 10 new rachets. A turret should spin freely . It should not bind.
4. Check to see that the index bar is centered. The clamp that holds it can twist, and the center ram can twist. Make sure that ram is centered, and then make sure that the clamp is centered.
5. The clamp is plastic. it is EASY to strip and easy to pull loose. I got fed up with the dam* thing and installed a longer through bolt with a nut. Now it clamps and cannot be spread/stripped just because it encounters a little interference.
6. never manually turn the turret or impede the turrent while lowering the handle. Never manually turn the turret while the plastic nut is locked in place. It will strip the nut.
7. Have about a dozen plastic nuts to spare. they are about 50 cents each when ordered directly from lee.

Yes, AA#5 will leak--although the leakage can be minimized. Try truing the surfaces of both the hopper and your desired disk. Personally, I just use an adjustable charge bar--they seem less likely to leak, I think.

The leakage that can't be minimized is the one that occurs because (#5) powder gets into the slot for the activation lever--and then it just dribbles out. Note that this dribbling amount does not impact the delivered weight / volume with either the charge bar or the disk if you do your due diligence on setting up the charge.

With nuts on the hopper tweaked satisfactorily to provide minimal leakage, but still allowing easy activation, I get some spillage--but not any more than taking a moment to blow it off when I've done 100 to 150 rounds.

I also found that, at least on my updated standard turret, no harm is done with the twist in the clamp. Like rdhood, I've replaced the screw that secures it with a bolt and nut/lockwasher--and that ended that problem. Unlike rdhood, I do lubricate my indexing rod, if not the ratchet nut, etc. Standard oil, sparingly placed on the upper part of the shaft works fine for me.

I have also tweaked my turrets to float slightly--that is, I adjusted the index nut on the upper end to provide minimal frame contact on a turret--and I also lube the turret in the grooves each time I change out the turret. As you get your stroke down and begin to speed up, you will probably find the need to adjust the "timing," so you can tweak the turret height at that time.

Finally, I find I do a complete cleanup every 500-600 rounds--degrease and relube--dies, turret, indexing rod, etc.--but I don't take the indexing apart until it needs replacement.
Jim H.

My finest powder is Win231, but I did have some small leakage from the disk. I kept my hopper screws snug but not tight enough to feel any resistance to movement.

Somewhere between 600 and 1000 rds, I noticed it wasnt leaking anymore. It appears that the flat surface on that particular disk hole SEATED to the hopper. A change in the disk surface is easily seen and it doesn't leak a grain now.

My Vit n320 is coarser and hasn't ever leaked.

What 1SOW pointed out is what I have found as well--i.e., the plastics Lee uses in their disks and charge bar do tend to wear in--and thus 'seat themselves' to minimize leakage. That wearing-in does have a flip side, however. I have replaced the bar and hopper in my oldest measure when the wearing started causing routine leakage. (30,000, 50,000 cycles?--that measure had been used a lot....)

That 'tweaking' those hopper nuts is important--the activation lever must reliably return, or you can have bad charges.

This issue is a minimal problem on a turret, simply because the powder dispensing is right in front of you, and part of learning your reloading habits include watching that operation. Note that, Every now and then there is going to be a "hang," but they are extremely rate. All of us who have used these measures and Lee's Powder-through-expander-die have experienced them. (a google search here will reveal previous discussions--we've never figured out a repeatable reason for it.) Vigilance is your ally--but don't obsess about it.

I too find that 231 leaks less generally than #5--but both of them meter extremely well in the Lee auto disk measures--and the Viht powders I've used leak little if at all, and they meter very accurately as well.

I have also tested charge accuracy vis-a-vis powder quantity in the hopper--and I find it can be an issue with some powders (Ramshot's Silhouette?--I forget)--but never an issue if the measure is kept 'full.' So, I just keep the measure filled above nominally 40-50%.

Jim H.

I have the same problem, and I have not even loaded a case. I need clarification on 1 thing before I (we) address my index rod floating. Does the slot on the ram face exactly forward or is it rotated to the left about 10 degrees? I cannot find a picture of the press that shows this. Mine (Lee Turret, not a Classic) is rotated.

Now on to it. My rod is floating also, and of course I cannot find a close-up video online to see if this is normal. I have a 4 hole turret and it indexes fine except for 1 hole, it usually over shoots it (slightly). I replaced the ratchet, and MADE SURE that it is in the slot, but the same result happens. This is a new press, I haven't even put a case into the shell holder. Any suggestions? I would like to keep the press, but I have about 4 hours of messing with this and haven't accomplished squat, let alone reloading. FYI: This is a 4-hole press from the factory, I don't even have a 3 hole turret in the house.

Thanks!!!

My rod is floating also, and of course I cannot find a close-up video online to see if this is normal.

Click to expand...

If you are talking about the indexing rod lifting off the base a little when the ram is on the up stroke then this is normal.

I have a 4 hole turret and it indexes fine except for 1 hole, it usually over shoots it (slightly). This is a new press, I haven't even put a case into the shell holder.

Click to expand...

I was wondering how you know it is over shooting one slot if you haven't tried to run a case into it yet?

Does the slot on the ram face exactly forward or is it rotated to the left about 10 degrees?

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Not sure, I have the classic turret. If the Deluxe has a couple of bumps in the base like the classic then the slot in the ram should be turned so that the lever primer arm centers between the bumps.


I would recommend that you start reloading on the press. It is going to act a little different when reloading than just cycling the press empty. Also some things will smooth out as the press is used more. I have been reloading on a classic turret for three years and it runs a lot smoother than when it was new. Consistant smooth strokes will be your friend.

Rusty

MetalJer: You apparently have the same press I do--the 'standard' in a 4-die configuration.

1. Yes, it is normal for the indexing rod to float. In floating, the inertia / momentum (take your pick of analysis) issues the forces involved in rotation introduce twisting--and since the base of the rod is free floating, it moves off the dimple. It's completely normal, and it really has no significant impact on your cartridge-building. Likewise, there will probably be a 'twisting' in the base--i.e., where the ratchet is. It would be nice, I guess, if it didn't twist--but it will, and tightening the clamp some more won't solve it in the long run. Again, it's not an issue.

2. Yes, the primer insertion lever is offset to the left about ten degrees. When / if you install the safety prime, you will see that the offset helps keep the lever accessible.

As for tweaking and adjusting the indexing. As RustyFN tactfully pointed out, you can't identify any final tweaking needs until you start working with cases.

As you go about trying the different steps in reloading, you will find that you are both consciously and unconsciously learning how to stroke the press lever. As you learn this, you will adapt to the different pressures needed to successfully perform an operation. IOW, the feel of a stroke for the sizing-decapping is different from the feel of seating a bullet. Eventually, you will even be subconsciously speeding up and slowing down at different parts of a given operation. This is simply part of the learning curve as you learn to operate the press 'smoothly.' In fact, I suspect one may have problems if they even try to think too much about these stroke differences--it's a gestalt, I think.

As you acclimate to these different 'feel' characteristics, you will probably make a conscious decision to start speeding up. And, that is when your final tweaking can be done. At some point you will find that, given the rhythm you use (I tend to run about 180-200 rph in production mode), one stroke will consistently cause the turret to over-or-under index slightly. Unless you have very real problems with indexing early on, don't worry about tweaking. Get the indexing set so that the turret "falls in" just as you are near or at the end of the stroke.

It's time to try using the press--but not loading finished cartridges yet. Try removing the indexing rod and simply try a given operation--e.g., sizing. After seeing the die is adjusted properly for full desizing, then size at least 10 or 20 cases to get a feel for it.

Don't worry about priming at this point, or about the Safety Prime if you have it installed.

Take those same cases and try PTED operation and adjustment. (this would be the 'startup' workflow for handgun and the smaller rifle calibers; you didn't say what cartridge you are working with. RustyFN will fill in on rifles--I'm a novice rifle reloader except for a small amount of .223).

And so on. Check back in with questions as needed.

editingfx: I consider about 3% spillage (with #5) to be about normal, I think. If you keep a clean bench, you can even sweep it up for reuse....

Jim H.

All,

Thank you for the replies! First, the rod does more than just lift off the base, it drifts to the right, (1/4 inch or so) off the base, every stroke, and it feels "sluggy" when the index clamp starts to impact the twist (when drifting). I assume that I am damaging the ratchet, as all of the videos I have seen show the rod staying straight (vertically). ???

As for the press overshooting the dies when indexing, I have a 9mm shell plate in place and it lines up with 3 out of 4, and overshoots consistently on (at this time) the powder measure. I will buy 5 or 100 more ratchets and keep trying if needed, but this just seems like a lemon - maybe this is all normal?

Also, I will be reloading 9mm and .223 eventually.

On a final note, it sure seems strange that the ram is turned 10 degrees, even if the safety prime lines up. What the heck is the slot for in the base? Lee needs to publish a simple picture, somewhere, anywhere.

Again, thanks for all the help!!

Jeremy

Yes, my ram is 10 degrees to the left. Thank you for the clarification!

MetalJer: Yes, the indexing rod will drift to the right. It happens because of the inertial forces in action on the clamp. As for it feeling 'sluggy'--yes, you will feel 'something' when the clamp hits the twist. If the ratchet is installed correctly, there will be no damage. FWIW, my rod simply doesn't rest on the dimple anymore; the clamp has a slight twist in it. Max tightening on the clamp didn't solve the problem. Keep a half-dozen ratchets on hand, and you'll be good for some time--but you probably will damage a couple as you learn to stroke properly. Insofar as ratchet damage goes, the technique is to never reverse direction when the ratchet is in the rod twist. Simply put, don't half-stroke in either direction, and damage doesn't occur.

As for the overshooting when you stroke to station two (the PTED). Try adjusting the indexing rod (always go clockwise, to 'raise' the turret and thereby have less drag) and get it so your stroke ends when the PTED 'drops' into place. If it now doesn't index 'fully' for stations three and four, trying splitting the difference.

However, as said above, you can't really do this tweaking as a 'final' solution until after you've gotten a good feel for (first) the individual operations and then for (second) the four-procedure process. In the course of gaining that familiarity, you'll gain the (subconcious) dexterity in the stroking speed and force.

My take from your posts to date is that your press is 'normal.' That is, you've stumbled early on into some of its 'eccentricities'--but which doesn't seem to impact making good ammo. Not benchrest ammo, but good, higher-quality handloads. Personally, other than an upgrade to the Classic Cast, I wouldn't buy a different turret. The auto-indexing rod feature is what makes this press (and the Classic Cast Turret) so viable as an alternative to a progressive for most reloaders.

The slot in the base is for the 'original' primer anvil / lever on a three-die setup. They didn't re-do the standard base casting molds when they sorted out the 4-die mod.

FWIW, I've been learning to load .223 on my turret. It works fine in a 'production' mode, once I got the rifle workflow sorted out. However, I've not gotten around to shooting those yet--I will, one of these days.

Jim H.

jfh +1

I have the same 4-holer as the OP. It works well and as jfh has said, there is a 'feel' to each turret station that has to be learned.

For me, the bullet seating die is the weak link. A hard stroke to the stop seats deeper than a lighter stroke to the stop. I'm picky about my 9mm OAL. Most probably don't worry about a few thousandths.

Start loading---it'll work--you'll like it.

On a final note, it sure seems strange that the ram is turned 10 degrees, even if the safety prime lines up. What the heck is the slot for in the base? Lee needs to publish a simple picture, somewhere, anywhere.

Click to expand...

They did, there is a picture of it right on the front page of the instructions that came with the press. In the 'Die Installation' section of the manual they explain that the primer lever arm has to fall between the two bumps on the frame base, rotate the ram if they don't line up.

It also explains the adjustment of the indexing rod by holding it with a 1/4" wrench while rotating the turrent so it indexes correctly and snaps into position.

The turrent and support ring use a spring loaded ball/detent system to hold the die directly over the shell holder. You should be able to rotate the turrent and feel it snap into position for each station. Adjust the indexing rod so that raising the press handle to the top moves the turrent to the detent position without going past it.

Quote From JimmyN:

They did, there is a picture of it right on the front page of the instructions that came with the press. In the 'Die Installation' section of the manual they explain that the primer lever arm has to fall between the two bumps on the frame base, rotate the ram if they don't line up.

Jimmy,

Are you looking at the Classic instructions? The Lee Turret's (at least mine) picture is at a 45 degree angle, like EVERY picture out there. If there is a picture from the front it is always 4 or 5 feet away and low res. There is no way one can tell if the the ram slot is facing forward. Under 'Die Installation' it never mentions anything about the primer lever arm AND the Lee Turret does not have 2 bumps, it has a useless, and therefore confusing, slot. To further explain my frustration, the ram cannot be turned without drilling a new hole through the bottom of the ram. I certainly hope you are referring to the Classic, if not, Lee needs to get organized.

However, as my new friend, JFH has pointed out:

1. Yes, it is normal for the indexing rod to float. In floating, the inertia / momentum (take your pick of analysis) issues the forces involved in rotation introduce twisting--and since the base of the rod is free floating, it moves off the dimple. It's completely normal, and it really has no significant impact on your cartridge-building. Likewise, there will probably be a 'twisting' in the base--i.e., where the ratchet is. It would be nice, I guess, if it didn't twist--but it will, and tightening the clamp some more won't solve it in the long run. Again, it's not an issue.

2. Yes, the primer insertion lever is offset to the left about ten degrees. When / if you install the safety prime, you will see that the offset helps keep the lever accessible.

JFH, THANK YOU!!! And everyone else for offering up some valuable information. Lee owes you guys lunches, and I do too.

As you can see, the index rod is angled to the right, relative to the ram and the supports, when the ram is down. Apparently this is normal.


In the other pic, you can see the slot in the ram is nowhere near the slot in the base. Apparently this is normal also.

If any of this is wrong, please let me know!

It is true that gun guys are the nicest guys out there. Thank you all for your help, I will pass your info on to anyone who needs it!

Jeremy

with an eye to future inquiries--

Once you get running and have a good overall sense of the (Lee Turret) process, you will probably make another discovery or two. One of these is that suddenly the primer arm starts sticking, or it sticks and then suddenly pops out--that sort of thing. This problem comes from the detrius / junk from primers and / or spilled powder getting into the ram--specifically, it builds in the slot in which the primer arm hangs, and on the arm itself. With the powders I use, it tends to coat the back of the primer arm, which causes the stickiness.

So, part of that routine cleanup I do includes degunking the slots and the primer. For the slots in the ram, I use swabs (gunsmith swabs--e.g., wooden-stick 'Q-Tips') sprayed with gun cleaner (brake cleaner). For the primer arm, I use a patch sprayed with the same cleaner, and a toothbrush to clean the spring at the head. Make sure the spring at the head is free.

I then apply a tiny drop of oil to the primer arm pivot, reinsert it, and away we go again.

Thid particular maintenance has to be done as needed--don't wait 'til a defined maintenance count if you need to, but do it at the maintenace interval as well.

As always, any questions, just ask--the only dumb question in reloading is the unasked one. Although I picked up on this thread, there are many others who own these presses and are happy to help.

Jim H.

Are you looking at the Classic instructions? The Lee Turret's (at least mine) picture is at a 45 degree angle, like EVERY picture out there. If there is a picture from the front it is always 4 or 5 feet away and low res. There is no way one can tell if the the ram slot is facing forward. Under 'Die Installation' it never mentions anything about the primer lever arm AND the Lee Turret does not have 2 bumps, it has a useless, and therefore confusing, slot. To further explain my frustration, the ram cannot be turned without drilling a new hole through the bottom of the ram. I certainly hope you are referring to the Classic, if not, Lee needs to get organized.

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Yes I'm looking at a Lee Classic Turret Press
That's true the image is angled, but you can still see the lever arm between the two bumps on the base.
This picture of a turret on my portable bench may be better.




There may be some confusion of terms. The ram does have a slot, into which the lever arm is inserted. When the ram is all the way down the primer arm that extends out of the ram should rest between the two bumps on the base. So the slot in the ram has to be angled if the lever arm is to rest between those two bumps.

I pulled out my manual to make sure and under 'Die Installation' it says;

A - Snap the shell holder into the shell holder insert. Be sure the primer arm falls between the bumps on the base. The end of the ram can be rotated to properly align the arm to the base. This alignment is critical to proper priming and turrent indexing.

B - Cycle the press up and down. If the turret does not stop in the correct position-follow these instructions. With the ram in the down position, place a 1/4" wrench on the index rod and hold in position; now rotate the turret to the correct position.

JimmyN,

I do not have the Classic, I have the Lee Turret. There are no bumps on the Lee Turret, there is just a slot that does not line up with the ram. There are no instructions concerning the primer arm under 'die installation' because I have the Lee Turret, see my previous posts.

However, if you are posting here for someone who does not have a Lee Turret, but they do have a Classic, then I am sure this will be good info.

Thank you everyone, I am sure this thread will help out some folks very soon!

Once you get running and have a good overall sense of the (Lee Turret) process, you will probably make another discovery or two. One of these is that suddenly the primer arm starts sticking, or it sticks and then suddenly pops out--that sort of thing.

Click to expand...

Got that one beat. The problem is that the primer arm needs to start moving back up under the holder sooner else it doesn't make it back up under the holder in time on the downward stroke and gets stuck. The key is to mount a pen or straw or something about that size out where the primer arm can hit it and start it moving. Since I made this mod, I have NEVER had a primer/primer cup stick again... no matter how much junk builds up around the press.
Pics to follow when I get them uploaded







BTW, you will also note my bolt/nut combo that holds the clamp together.