do people read at all anymore?

I had a two inch thick book on the side fender of my car that had a chapter on the firing order of the specific engine I was working on. That book and a box of american tools from sears plus parts at napa got me going many a time.

Now today's kids stare at computer monitors hooked into my car and think that this whatsit is busted and needs replacing. Heck Ive had computer code books in my rig and pulled into truck stop only to hear confirmation of why the rig was in there in the beginning! Sheesh.:banghead:

I drifted off to sleep many a night while reading, I think I read just about all I got my hands on in all the houses that had books we lived in.

The scary part is today, Google threatens to make reading a chapter for homework obselete. Copy, paste, convert to your own words and hit print or email to teacher. Poof all done.

Scary.

The one library I go to still has books good from the ww2 years through the cold war against the USSR. There you have engineering and manufactoring books with proper formulas etc unavailible online.

Thank god for librarys done right.

I will tell you what IS TRULY something to consider.

This forum, for example.

Get up, brew some coffee and settle down for a hour or two reading with about 20+ pages of new posts.

By the time you finish all the pages and refresh, you now have 10 pages of new material or replies. It is a living monstor that if left unattended will bloat to 40 pages and require 6 hours just to get caught up.

Google threatens to make reading a chapter for homework obselete. Copy, paste, convert to your own words and hit print or email to teacher. Poof all done.

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Back in my day, we had to physically type out the paper that we were paraphrasing straight from the encyclopedia.

People who are too lazy to invest a little effort in researching before asking for help have existed since before the internet was ever conceived. The internet killed books like guns kill people.

"The internet killed books like guns kill people."

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Guns don't kill people, Chuck Norris kills people.

I'm looking at my own library...about 1,000 hardcover, maybe 400 softcover. It's hard to keep track.

I read mountains of books in high school. When I read now, I feel guilty if it something school or work-related. I read mostly political non-fiction now, or novels I have already read translated to languages I'm trying to learn.

I rolled my eyes at a professor a few years ago who forbade us from using the internet for research. He required news articles, and they had to be hand-cut from actual newspapers. We were not allowed to copy them in the library, where we obviously weren't allowed to cut the papers up either. He was taking it upon himself to force us to subscribe to newspapers, and guilt our generation for getting our information from other sources.

I don't know how long it would take me to learn as much about guns, get specific questions answered, or focus my activist efforts without the internet. I probably wouldn't notice.

I do, however, hold a high degree of disdain for anyone who uses Wikipedia as an academic source. Go ahead and use it, look stuff up on it, but if you list it as a source, you should be excoriated by your professor.

"...while reading Kafka..." Doesn't count unless it was in German. snicker.
A good smithy spends as much or more time reading than he does with a screwdriver in his hand. However, the Internet is a great research tool. Point you to the right book if nothing else.
The young bucks want everything fast. Sometimes handed to them too. I'll send 'em to the right book or suggest where to find the book. Internet forum space limits usually doesn't allow for a long written descprition. Have to admit that the sites with .pdf file manuals are handy. Bigger Hammer, etc.
Can't imagine needing to be shown how to do something if I can find a book that will. My brother, on the other hand, needs to be shown. Says reading puts him to sleep. I thought it was because his $1,000 goalie helmet is too tight, but he's always been like that.
"...Wikipedia as an academic source..." HAHAHAHA!!! A lot of Internet nonsense gets repeated there.
"...should be excoriated..." At least.

I have not read all the post, but sometimes we just enjoy comfortable conversation. Maybe it has been covered, but I may WANT to discuss something like why is the .22 better then the .25 as a SD round....

Actually, I encourage the kids to use Wikipedia as a starting point for their web searches, especially if they are clueless about the subject in question. They can get useful search terms there that can lead them to the information that they need.

Wikipedia is a good starting point but a poor ending point.

ALL the cartridges of the world?

rojocorsa --

It may well not be ALL of 'em, but there's a pretty good start, in:


Cartridges of the World, by Frank C. Barnes/Edited by Stan Skinner. I have the 11th edition. Apparently that's the latest one. I picked up this copy at Cabela's a year or two back.

Click HERE with credit card in hand, and Amazon will have it dellivered to you next Tuesday or Wednesday, $19.95 + shipping.

I read it for fun sometimes. More than that, there's probably not a week goes by that I don't pull it off the shelf next to my keyboard. I answer questions on-line, give info to my friends and Elder Son. COTW is one of my 20 most necessary reference works.

Best,
Johnny

I read for enjoyment, just about every night. Reading a book simply to get information I need when it is available elsewhere is akin to delivering a letter via pony express when you have a UPS next door. There are more efficient ways.

If I can get the answer with 5 minutes of web browsing as opposed to buying/borrowing a book and spending 2 hours reading it, I'm going for option A.

Closing in on 60 and, at least for entertainment reading, have enthusiastically embraced audible.com. Fewer problems while driving and it seems time for dead trees and pigment is more limited than it once was.

As far as folks posting without research, I'm not seeing a clear answer.

If they research in periodical print media their results will be mostly dependent on where advertising dollars are going. I used to wonder about this until I last picked up a copy of ST at the airport which featured reloading. They managed to cover the matter extensively including many low volume and specialty suppliers. How hard is it to cover progressive presses extensively without mentioning Dillon? Not easy if the article was any indication but it can be done. Even the most rabid blue hater in the reloading forum will at least admit that Dillon exists. Not so the periodical. Sure enough - ads from everyone except Blue Press Which Shall Not Be Named.

Seems a lot of threads are started by new members asking about products that have a particular appeal to new gun / handgun owners. Hence we'll see basically the same threads what seems like every week asking about Hi-Points and, to a lesser extent, Judges.

The internet is home to snake oil in much the same way as supermarket tabloids and a noob may have issues sorting oats from used oats - so I smile benignly on those that carried skepticism here fresh from an Xtreme Ammo site featuring magic bullets marketed by Tesla Ninjas.

The internet is more certain than print to present multiple sides to a story. Regrettably, it includes sides which don't exist in the real world. One must carry a grain of salt into any verdict offered by periodical print media and a 5 pound sack of salt into any internet venue. At least on THR, if someone states that a 1985 S&W with hammer-mounted firing pin must be carried with an empty chamber under the hammer, he'll be corrected - but if someone is doing "drive-by" research, there's plenty of bogus stuff to be learned regardless of the quality of the membership - it's a timing issue. One must hang around long enough for the used oats to be identified by the membership.

The only thing I wish hadn't happened is that we have evidently bred an entire generation that believes "if it's not on Wikipedia, it doesn't exist" and some of us that should know better have forgotten that appreciable swaths of human knowledge will still only yield to old-fashioned dead tree and pigment research. The fact that many of the court cases Mas Ayoob alludes to aren't online no doubt leads to the same "urban legend" threads being posted repeatedly.

Conversely, some stuff on Wikipedia doesn't exist. Their reference to a fictitious Mar/Apr American Hangunner remains as of this date though it has been debunked on THR weeks ago. I suppose Wikipedia is as good as a freely editable free encyclopedia is likely to get - it provides a decent jumping off point for verification / further research. It's just that sometimes the jumping off point leads to a dry pool and cracked cranium.

No medium is without error. The internet, like paper, encompasses everything from supermarket tabloid Elvis sightings to extensively vetted academic studies.

Cartridges of the World, by Frank C. Barnes/Edited by Stan Skinner.

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I bought my first copy when I was in high school in the '70s. Buying a copy would prevent most of the ammunition related misinformation that I see here and elsewhere.

Reading a book simply to get information I need when it is available elsewhere is akin to delivering a letter via pony express when you have a UPS next door. There are more efficient ways.

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Unfortunately, a lot of information is ONLY available in books. The information available in the Collector Grade books is simply not available anywhere except in print, and frequently in no other books.

I guarantee you that you are NOT going to find better information about the various versions of the Maxim gun on line than you will in "The Devil's Paintbrush".

Hence my "when it IS available elsewhere".... which I added specifically for the "I found an exception to your statement" people.

Many people don't bother reading a forum thread (or may only go back a post or three) before responding.
Why would anyone think they would read anything more in depth then a comic book?

Some of the questions on THR (and almost every other forum I'm on) are a bit ludicrous when the poster asks questions that are easily answered in the owner's manual.

When I take any firearm down for cleaning, I still have the manual on hand for ready reference. Even a Glock, and they don't get much simpler then a Glock.

While we're bitching, I also lament the illiteracy on forums...using gangbanger slang, poor spelling and punctuation (or no puncuation...all one long stream of consciousness sentence).

...Why would anyone think they would read anything more in depth then a comic book?... ...While we're bitching, I also lament the illiteracy on forums...

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Uhh.. Never mind.

Les

Unfortunately there are very few basic gun library type books converted to .lit format. I read as much, if not more, than my fifty something father. He reads books and I read off a PDA.

I just received my mail-order copy of the Blue Book and renewed my subscription to Precision Shooting for 2 more years.

John


P.S. -

""if it's not on Wikipedia, it doesn't exist" "

If it is on Wikipedia there's a good chance it isn't accurate.

Wikipedia has its faults just like any other material, books, magazines, even art. That's why people need to look/read/study in order to form a logical conclusion. I remember when I was in school every history textbook gave a single unified reason for Texas fighting the Mexicans. 15 years later and after college I came across "Grant's Memoirs". In referring to the Mexican American war he brought out the dissent by most military leaders regarding the actual purpose. The war was waged primarily over Texas support of slavery and not so much as independence.

"Wikipedia has its faults just like any other material, books, magazines"

At least books and magazines have paid editors and professional staff with a vested interest in keeping their product factual enough to draw repeat customers and stay on the market.

Wikipedia has what; anybody with access to a computer connected to the web.

John

At least books and magazines have paid editors and professional staff with a vested interest in keeping their product factual enough to draw repeat customers and stay on the market.

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A little off topic but that's not entirely true. They (authors/publishers) are in the business to make money plain and simple. And they have more tools than the majority of the reading public to push a book. For example, If I want to read fiction and I like it I'll buy the book, If I want to read military history I'll read as many opposing views and then form my own conclusion.

Keep in mind, many now turn to the internet (and forums such as these) when they are seeking knowledge about a particular subject, firearms included, possibly due to the specificity the internet is capable of producing. Sure, they could go out and buy a comprehensive book or DVD regarding such material but, thanks to the internet...why would they?

Now, I prefer and enjoy owning a library of books and DVDs regarding various topics. But, not everyone out there is inclined to go this route when they are merely seeking answers to one or two questions. Think of it as those who would rather not buy a CD just because it contains one or two good tracks out of, say, 15.

Books and videos cost (and may contain what some deem as unnecessary clutter)...most info on the internet is free and possibly more to the point. Again, I dont prefer this, but Im willing to bet that many do.

How about being blocked by hotel computers?

At the Hol. Inn in downtown Sioux Falls, SD and the Guesthouse (former Best W.) in Grand Forks, ND, the computers provided by these hotels block any gun topics.

But they don't block the television access to violent movies.

For those of us who can not justify the cost of our first laptop computer, let's hope that this screwy hotel mgmt virus does not spread to other hotels.