what ammo for my chiefs special

just do searches on generic ammo for a snub nosed revolver in the search.

also, what material your revolver is made of will greatly affect the ammunition you can choose from. if its an alloy or light weight revolver, or with special finishes, heed all warnings and ammo recommendations from Smith and Wesson, itll save wear and tear and frustration in the long term.

either one of these will do great:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=109

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_57&products_id=215

As far as I can tell both rounds are about the same, with a slight nod going to the DoubleTap, as it is cheaper and also a tad bit faster as well.

I prefer the standard 158 Grain lead semi-wadcutter hollow point +P, also known as the "Treasury Load."

For .38's, it's long been held as the gold standard.

And it doesn't cost as much as some of the super duper premium JHP's

The Rem 38S12 --a "FBI Load" runs about $30.00 for a box of fifty rounds--check Sportsman's Guide, for one. They had it in stock last week.

Also--the current 38+P 158-gr. ammo runs about 800-820 FPS when fired from a 2" barrel--which I assume your snubnose has. The GDSB 38+P 135-gr. PD round runs about 860-900 fps.

The Buffalo Bore 20A--identified as a "heavy 38 / +P+" will run over 1000 fps, but it is above 38+P.

added on edit: So just which S&W did you buy?

Jim H.

I just can't see paying a dollar or more for a round of .38 special ammo...50 cents a round is bad enough. If I didn't already have some "premium" hollowpoint ammo, I'd stick to either a plain lead semi wadcutter or jacketed flat nose of 158 grains, provided they shot to point of aim...as a matter of fact, a 158 grain LSWC is what I keep in my 2 inch model 12 S&W, it's amazingly accurate, even at 25 yards, very controllable in this revolver and has enough weight for adequate penetration - which is all a good handgun bullet needs to do.

That doubletap ammo says it's getting some amazing velocity out of a short barrel - I just wonder how controllable it is in a small framed revolver??? Like David E said, the 'ol Treasury load is a good one to use - depending on the weight of the revolver it's used in.

I use to be obsessed with finding the "magic" super expanding bullet in every handgun caliber I owned ... but after looking at the real results and talking with many others who have saw the same results, all that really matters is shot placement with adequate penetration...anything else (expansion) is of little consequence....so, now most of my interest is in the accuracy of the ammo with each particular handgun. Premium ammo is good for the flash suppressed powders and supposedly better quality control. A standard pressure .38 special don't usually flash that much anyway...but some +P and +P+ can light up pretty good...all depends on what kind of powder they use.

Though my snub .38sp revolvers all have Speer 135gr +P Gold Dots, it's only because I bought a few boxes soon after they hit the shelves and well before this insidious and protracted price hike (back with $13/25 for premium defensive JHPs was considered "pricey").

Before then, I was happy with 158gr SWCHP +P from just about any brand with a slight proclivity towards Winchester. I later began rolling my own using Hornady swaged SWCHPs.

Seriously though, I do believe even a 148gr HC DEWC driven to healthy velocities would be more than up to the task if you want to practice with what you carry on the cheap; the .38special never was a powerhouse to begin with and round holes bleed plenty.
I understand either Double Tap or Buffalo Bore offers a spicey DEWC these days, so the idea isn't unique I guess.

If restricted to factory stuff that I needed to expand from a 2" barrel, I'd go with the lighter 110gr JHP stuff. Otherwise, the heavier fodder is the way to go, IMO.

If anyone is interested in what the professionals have to say.

Dr Gary Roberts, leading terminal ballistics researcher in America today:

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914

I don't understand why, but so many folks here just blow this priceless source of information off. I guess their experience and opinions vastly out weight Dr Roberts and the FBI Research.

It's America where you are free to join the line to prove Darwin right.

Go figure.

Fred

So, what did you take away from the Roberts' post, Fred?

FWIW, I carry either the GDSB 38+P 135-gr. rounds or the Rem 38S12s. FWIW, my carry gun is a M&P340--i.e., 13.3-oz. Scandium Frame .357. I've done no penetration tests--I rely on Brassfetcher (and others) for that information--but I've done scads of chrono tests.

One can build practice rounds for both the Gold Dot 38+P 135-gr. round for perhaps 13 cents a round--that's using typical powders, primers, and a 140-gr. LTC bullet. Similarly, the 'FBI (Treasury) Load' can be built for the same amount. The brass looks good for an average of perhaps six-to-ten uses, depending on brand.

Bamabob, and others: See the 642 and M&P340 threads in this forum. They cover the various 2" j-frames as well as those two specific models, and there is a wealth of information in them.

Jim H.

If anyone is interested in what the professionals have to say.

Dr Gary Roberts, leading terminal ballistics researcher in America today:

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914

I don't understand why, but so many folks here just blow this priceless source of information off. I guess their experience and opinions vastly out weight Dr Roberts and the FBI Research.

It's America where you are free to join the line to prove Darwin right.

Go figure.

Fred

Click to expand...

That was particularly condescending and snarky. I'll respond by quoting your source:

As always, don't get too wrapped in the nuances of ammunition terminal performance. Spend your time and money on developing a warrior mindset, training, practice, and more training.

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You can make your point without being quite so obtuse, Chieftain.

the muzzel velocities with +p are around 1000fps compared to 900ish in standard which will do fine for what i want.

You are not going to get these numbers out of a 2" unless you use a very light bullet.

A 158 gr +P may do about 850 fps and a std velocity 158 gr around 750 fps. You can get more velocity from lead bullets as they have a lower coefficient of friction than jacket material. If you are inclined to carry a +P I would suggest a 158 LHP FBI load. A 148 gr wadcutter is a good std velocity load (actually mor a minus P load) as the bullet is already in a shape that any hollowpoint has to expand a bit before it gets there. It's about the lowest recoiling factory ammo available and the most controllable.

Most important, quoted for the second time:

Quote:
As always, don't get too wrapped in the nuances of ammunition terminal performance. Spend your time and money on developing a warrior mindset, training, practice, and more training.

It's more of a small cap to prevent gas blow by from the hotter loads that would otherwise allow the gasses blast past the bullet and melt the lead, greatly increasing leading. I have yet to use them as I use hard cast and plated bullets, but I've tossed around the idea.

Gas checks are copper or other alloy disks that are crimped to the base of a lead bullet to protect it from melting.

The leading edge of the gas check is also thought to scrape any barrel leading out of the barrel with each shot.





They add another level of expense & work to place them on the bullets during the sizing/lubing operation.
They are not needed until you reach magnum pistol or centerfire rifle velocitys.

rc

The Buffalo Bore 20A--identified as a "heavy 38 / +P+" will run over 1000 fps, but it is above 38+P.

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This is why I prefer their standard pressure loading of the same bullet... 20C. It's doing 850 fps which is plenty to expand the soft HP without breathing fire. BB's standard stuff is almost as hot as some +P.

I have a Model 60 3" bbl. .357 Mag but my HD/SD load
is Double Tap .38 SPecial +P 125 gr. Speer Gold Dots @ 1135 FPS
much more manageeable recoil, less muzzle flash than .357 MAg.

SPeer also offers a 135 gr. Gold DOt JHP Short Barrel load

There's also the .38 Special 158 gr. SWC "FBI" Load
some like

Randall

what is a good choice for defense ammo that is not speer or black talon or other $2.50 a round ammo choice.

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I think thats what i saw on buffalo bores site looks like a winner.

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The Buffalo Bore ammo is just as expensive as the others you mentioned which you didn't want to buy. Up until last year the Double Tap .38 Special +P ammo cost only $26.95/50 rounds but now it's up to $35.95/50 rounds. Even though the price is way up that is for 50 rounds so it's still a good price. And, they use a Speer Gold Dot bullet so you get a very good ammo. IMO like already mentioned Remington R38S12 ammo, the FBI Load is great ammo but that will cost you just as much for 50 rounds as the Double Tap ammo. I'm carrying the FBI Load from Remington or Federal in my J frame and I have full confidence in it.

I carry a blue steel Chiefs Special with Speer Gold Dots. I practice mostly with 158 grain "whatever I can find". I don't notice much difference in recoil. So it makes sense to me to practice with the "cheap" stuff (other than an occasional few rounds of Gold Dots) but carry the good stuff. It doesn't cost much to carry it around.

These gotta hurt...

If you don't want to carry/shoot +P loads You can carry what I carry in my older S&W M38 Bodyguard the Federal Premium 125 grain Nyclad hollow points.
Recoil is mild and easy on your J frame gun.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=828
You can practice more and shoot better.
Of course this is my opinion and your mileage may vary.

So, what did you take away from the Roberts' post, Fred?

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The fact that Doc Roberts research has shown correlation with OIS results from the street. In other words his research has been corroborated in real life REAL fire fights.

That is what I take from it, i.e. when Dr Roberts speaks, the FBI, and most agencies in the United States and Canada pay attention. I do too.

Who's corroborated research do you use to base your ammunition selections on?

Go figure.

Fred