Converting a carving knife to a skinning knife

Readyrod said:

A few weeks ago at a local second hand shop I saw a carving knife for cheap. It had a very nice stag handle but the cutting edge was in bad shape so I didn't buy it. Then I thought it would make a beautiful skinning knife if I could cut the blade down. It was gone when I went back (of course) but the question still stands. What would be the best way to cut down a blade? I have some hand tools; files and sharpeners but no grinder, and there are some machine shops in the area that I might be able to access. What do you guys think? Is it worth it to cut down a blade? Thanks?

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How much was it? If you really like it. I would be glad to help you cut it down. I wont charge you an Arm and Leg either.

Witht the right equipment it would be easy, like for a knifemaker. I just did a re-grind of a knife and was suprised how easy it was. Shaping it would be a bit more involved but nothing too difficult.

Would using appropriate bits on a Dremel raise the temp. too much if you worked slow?

Cutting down a knife blade...

Readyrod--Without any specialized "knife knowledge," I reduced the size and shape of an Old Hickory carving knife years ago. I did the rough work with a grinding wheel, let the steel go blue and whatever else color it wanted, but kept about 3/8" away from my final shape. Then did the final shaping and blade thinning, slowly with a file, and sharpened as usual with an oil hone.

Had to re-do the rivets in the handle--the slabs were weathered and loose; filled the holes with epoxy, re-drilled 'em, put in new copper belt rivets, filed the ends flat.

Only thing I'd do differently now would be to use a diamond hone--I've pretty much quit using Arkansas oil stones.

Now, I'm sure this was all blasphemy to Knife Knuts, but the resulting knife has been in my kitchen for years, gets daily use, holds an edge as well as any other knife in my rack, and the re-shaped blade was and is much more user-friendly than the original.

If it makes a difference, this was an OLD Old Hickory--Shapleigh's Hammer Forged, not the newer Ontario Knife Company logo on the blade.

I've had good results with several Old Hickory's over the years--for working kitchen knives they hold up very well.

Here are a couple of links that might be of interest:
http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/skinner.htm
A few subtle differences:
http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/oupa_skinner.htm
Regards,
Greg

Learning experiences...

Ready Rod--Next "neat idea" cheapo knife you see, snap up! For a buck or 2, you can't lose, and even if you manage to completely ruin the thing, chalk it up to yr tuition in Knife Knowledge College (a college within the University of Hard Knox! )

I gotta say, that that second Nessmuk shown in GB 6491's links, looks really sharp--to make a miserable pun!

But Gee Whiz! You say you're in Japan, the home of some of the most esoteric and advanced sword (and knife) making in the entire world! Take advantage! There have got to be opportunities to learn about the making, and care & feeding, of katanas and such, from real masters!

To do otherwise would be like living in Orlando, FL, and not going to Randall's!

Smokey Joe said:

Ready Rod--Next "neat idea" cheapo knife you see, snap up! For a buck or 2, you can't lose, and even if you manage to completely ruin the thing, chalk it up to yr tuition in Knife Knowledge College (a college within the University of Hard Knox! )

I gotta say, that that second Nessmuk shown in GB 6491's links, looks really sharp--to make a miserable pun!

But Gee Whiz! You say you're in Japan, the home of some of the most esoteric and advanced sword (and knife) making in the entire world! Take advantage! There have got to be opportunities to learn about the making, and care & feeding, of katanas and such, from real masters!

To do otherwise would be like living in Orlando, FL, and not going to Randall's!

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I total agree.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Good luck and above all be safe while grinding!

Filing and using files wrapped in wet/dry sandpaper is probably the best way to do most of the work, as the heat won't build enough to damage

When you make the "big cut" to truncate the existing blade, the colours on the steel by the cut will go a long way to telling you how much of the heat treat you've ruined. Those colours (characterized by yellow-brown-blue-purple, essentially) are known in the bladesmithing industry as "Temper Colours". The colours are a result of the way oxidation forms on the surface of the steel at specific temperatures. The colour of the oxide coating is a record of the maximum temperature reached, for all intents and purposes.

What follows is true for simple high carbon steels, but it's a decent reference for your purposes anyway. After the steel is hardened, it's as hard and brittle as glass. Tempering is done to gain toughness, at the expense of hardness. Pen knife blades are heated to about 450-500F, a yellow coloured oxide. Swords and springs that must not fail in use but where edge holding requirements are lesser, are tempered to a blue colour. You may be able to fill in the colours in the middle and guess at some applications for them based on that....

So, in short, any part of your blade that exhibits oxide colouring adjacent to the cut you make (with a grinder or whathaveyou) will essentially be softened from its original temper, and you should plan to discard this.

This may be 3/8" if you use an angle grinder or chop saw, but may be rather less if you had access to a plasma cutter.

So, make the cut, and then file/sand etc. to remove any steel that was discoloured, and you'll have a great start.

Tools like belt sanders can be used carefully to cut steel with limited heat.... Once you get bit by the knife-making addiction, one may be useful to you...

Good luck, have fun, and be especially careful with grinders and other rotating equipment. Wear eye protection.

J

A mask would be unnecessary when using just hand files. Even for light power grinding, but if you were at the grinder all day, it might be an idea....

The eye protection's always a good plan. Being a glasses wearer, it's one I often forget...

Where are the photos? We wanna see your work, no matter how basic it is!

Sounds like you had fun!

J

Pictures

Readyrod, if you hop over to the Tech Support sub-forum, there's a sticky that explains the picture thing in exquisite detail. More than you ever wanted to know about posting pictures.

If you want to post them as attachments, there is a size limit for individual pics, but otherwise it's a cake walk.

Shucks, if I can figure out pictures, anybody can.

I've done a bit of converting old kitchen knives into field/skinning/camp knives. My latest was a knife I found in the broiler of an old stove that was in the basement of a house my sister-in-law was moving into.

I didn't take any "before" pics but it was a nine inch butcher knife that was just about used up. I decided to go with a Kephart design as opposed to a Nessmuk. It's ugly but it works.




Worth every penny.

It Worked

That's a fine looking tomato & bagel knife.

Careful, though.

I hear that working with steel can be addictive.

But there is hope -- there's some kind of 12 step program that helps with that -- you'd have to talk to Valkman or JTW or Jim Adams (Black Toe) or even hso.

They can help you.

Readyrod said:

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm hooked!!!! I was even looking at the angle iron on the bookshelves just now and wondering how they would sharpen up!!!!!!! I'm dreaming of the file section at the local home center.
BTW they got some weird looking tools here in Japan.

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Welcome to the addiction!
Now, prepare your wallet and bank account for an influx of all kinds of new tools, mainly power, to facilitate the addiction.
If I were you, I'd get a couple of books that will help immensely. Wayne Goddard has a couple that really helped me even though I had already been making for 7 years. They are "The Wonder of Knifemaking" and "$50.00 Knife Shop".
Lot's of excellent time saving and "how-to" tips. It'll take years off your learning curve.

Have fun and be safe!