New powder rumor
- Thread starter BUGUDY
- Start date
- Status
Siggie
Member
I am not sure how they would control the shelf life without compromising safety. I am concerned about the statement "Max Life".
To me this indicates that your powder could go bad anytime in between.
Wich brand is the rumor about?
Ar.
To me this indicates that your powder could go bad anytime in between.
Wich brand is the rumor about?
Ar.
trickyasafox
Member
powder can last a long time when stored in a cool, dry place in a good container. years and years.
243winxb
Member
All smokeless powders deteriorate chemically as they get older. This rate of deterioration can be accelerated by such things as storage in warm conditions,exposure to other chemicals and exposure to direct sunlight. Any such deterioration may ultimately lead to a fire through spontaneous ignition of the powder. CHECK containers of smokeless powder regularly for possible deterioration through age or inadequate storage. Yearly checks are recommended wherever average daily summer temperatures exceed 30 ºC. Where average daily summer temperatures are usually below 30 ºC checks should be made every two years. CHECK containers of smokeless powder for possible chemical deterioration through age or inadequate storage. Such deterioration may ultimately lead to spontaneous ignition of the powder. Chemical deterioration of smokeless powder can be recognised by carefully smelling the contents of the container – any deterioration produces an acrid, acidic odour quite different from the normal sweet smelling odours of ethanol or ether which are usually present. Rusting of metal surfaces exposed to smokeless powder can also indicate deterioration.
armoredman
Member
Heard this one before, also research "taggants".
Grump
Member
Last I heard, still currently unknown. IME, more than 50 years, less than "optimum" conditions. Up to 85F on occasion, seasonal and daily temp changes, dark because of original containers, low humidity because always sealed, average temperature closer to 70 F.
A lot of it depends on the initial level of "stabilizers" mixed in the powder, and the levels of residual acids and whatever else that contribute to deterioration.
This is a recycled rumor from the FIRST primer shortage of the Klinton Administration (caused by similar politico-market forces, not some sinister .gov conspiracy). The bugaboo then was claimed to be a switch to lead-free, with an either intentional or "capitalized upon"/engineered shorter shelf life.
Charlie Petty (trained as a chemist) can tell you that molecules are NOT like computer software--a time-specific "logic bomb" is very, very difficult to implement. This is especially true with a very high-energy substance.
For the feds to impose such a standard on a product, they would need to show some compelling governmental interest AND that the measure is "narrowly tailored" to closely match that need, without excessive burdens on several liberty interests implicated. At least the current SCOTUS would likely rule that way, and Herr Obama does not have time to pack the Court with rabid ideologues, barring some "Pelican Brief" scenario involving at least two Justices.
Furthermore, the rumored rule would not reasonably solve any public problem. We have stats showing that the vast majority of firearms misused by felons are possessed far longer than 30 days (so much for your stoopid "waiting period"), but I doubt there are any stats on how "fresh" the criminals' ammo tends to be.
Law Enforcement might be able to endure such a burden, but there is no way the military should suffer under such a shelf life restriction. Splitting the industry further into military and peon categories would be unworkable and would also spawn a HUGE black market significantly unlike the illicit drug market.
R.W.Dale
Member
AH! more gunstore, gunshow misinformation.
To think that folks like Tom Gresham believe such gems only started with advent of the internet
To think that folks like Tom Gresham believe such gems only started with advent of the internet
The Clinton era primer scare has morphed into a powder scare
Back in the Clinton administration someone put out the bogus rumor that primers were going to be changed to have a short shelf life. Primers flew off the shelf, prices went up, and guess what
Nothing Happened.
Maybe someone is trying to boost powder sales.
In so far as the chemistry of gunpowder, reducing the shelf life increases the probability of auto ignition. What maker of gunpowder wants to be sued for causing your house to catch fire?
The Army scraps single based powder ammo at 45 years, double based at 20 years. That is a reasonable lifetime for gunpowder and scrapping stuff by clock time is easy. Powder does go bad, there are inhibitors to the reduction-oxidation reaction in gunpowder. As a product of this reaction nitric acid gas comes out of the powder and heat is produced. Inhibitors sop up the nitric acid gas. The Navy tests the percentage of inhibitors in the powder, compares to the original, and scraps powders when the inhibitors are LT 12-15%. Somewhere in that range.
Heat is the worst enemy of gunpowder. Water exposure is bad. The best storage conditions, as I was told by a Navy Expert, is Arctic. Unchanging cold an dry.
It makes far more sense, from a gun ban perspective, to just ban the sales of gunpowder to the civilian market. Simple and positive. No liability for anyone.
I just threw all my powder out last week and bought new:banghead:GMFWoodchuck
member
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2010
- Messages
- 137
They will never implement it. Near the end of the life of the powder you would end up slugging bores with bullets causing guns to explode with follow up shots. Can any one say lawsuit against everyone involved. The powder maker for making it, and the government for attempting to force such a dangerous situation on purpose.
Do not worry about it. It will never happen. Too dangerous and the powder companies know this. They will sooner stop production for fear of liability and lawsuits.
In all fairness though there is some degradation of powder. But it's almost not worth mentioning. Ammo will still work years (many decades to be more acurate) after manufacture. You just won't want to bring it to your target competition.
Do not worry about it. It will never happen. Too dangerous and the powder companies know this. They will sooner stop production for fear of liability and lawsuits.
In all fairness though there is some degradation of powder. But it's almost not worth mentioning. Ammo will still work years (many decades to be more acurate) after manufacture. You just won't want to bring it to your target competition.
The patent is for limited shelf life primers, not powder. This is the patent number 5773748 that is titled "Limited-life cartridge primers". Full text of the patent can be freely downloaded from patft.uspto.gov or google.com/patents (both through quick search by the #).
The patent does not mention the exact two year term of the shelf life. It should be up to an ammo supplier to decide how soon freedom fighters become terrorists.
budiceman
Member
Wow! and to think some of the places I've been to! Some of their Stuff has been on the shelf for a long time because $ was to high! Guess they will watch their inventory better huh?
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Given enough Government stimulant money, they could put a microchip in each round and turn it on and off at will from a satellite orbiting overhead.
Yea! Thats the ticket!
Lets put a bug in some senators ear and it will probably happen!
rc
Yea! Thats the ticket!
Lets put a bug in some senators ear and it will probably happen!
rc
Seismic Sam
Member
Yes, would you like some Grey Poupon on your baloney??
Closest I have seen to this was some supposed CIA 50 BMG ammo, with no headstamp other than the year, and the primer was supposedly good for only for 1 year, for the precise reason of keeping it from getting stockpiled and then used against us at some future point in time. Considering the situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan, probably a good idea.
And BTW, I am still finding a few fired RA 42 (Rockford Arsenal, 45 ACP, 1942) cases out at the range, so that's proof that powder life in ammo is at least 68 years.
Closest I have seen to this was some supposed CIA 50 BMG ammo, with no headstamp other than the year, and the primer was supposedly good for only for 1 year, for the precise reason of keeping it from getting stockpiled and then used against us at some future point in time. Considering the situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan, probably a good idea.
And BTW, I am still finding a few fired RA 42 (Rockford Arsenal, 45 ACP, 1942) cases out at the range, so that's proof that powder life in ammo is at least 68 years.
qajaq59
Member
That rumor has been around and around and around and..........
snuffy
Member
243winxb is up to his old tactics of copy and paste WITHOUT any reference to where it came from. It's BS anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
Some people will believe anything! Geese, get a life!
evan price
Member
This rumor is absolutely true. I know a guy who told me his garbage mans's cousin's wife is working with the guy who invented this. The government is not telling anyone because they want it to be a surprise. They are also implanting devices in bullets like the IFF system in combat aircraft. If you try to shoot at anyone with a proper badge your bullet explodes in the barrel, killing the shooter. The only way to be safe is to microwave your ammunition for about 5 minutes, this fries the chips. The same procedure you need to use with your new US currency with the tracking strip inside. The only other way to prevent this from happening is to put a big chunk of bologna on the end of your barrel, this fools the chip.
- Status
