Crimson Trace Poll

I also did not vote, due to no valid options.
My Beretta 92FS carries a set of CT grips, only because I got a pair of brand new, discontinued LG202 grips cheap...I like them a lot, even though I too have no problem point shooting, even out to 25yds...but the laser does give the option for shooting accurately from unusual positions. Plus, while I would not count on it, there is the well reported intimidation factor...
I don't know about "elite military units", but the CT grips, bot IR and visible, are in wide use by our troops on the beretta 92FS.

I tried them but didn't like them.
This stems from a personal preference. When using a laser sight I sometimes find myself gripping the firearm poorly (this could probably be remedied if I spent more time practicing with a laser sight) and in bright light situations I spend too much time trying to find the "dot." I realize that if the dot is not immediately visible one should resort to the backup sights, but instead I find myself hunting intently for the little red dot.

I tried them out and I truly do not like them on my gun(s). I see their value in dry fire training but in actual use I would not want to have them on my guns.

Damian

Not one of the options, but my take is:

I think laser grips are great, but a good set of night sights is more important to me.

They ride on my 1911. I can print a full mag into a ragged, one shot group at 15+ yards, shooting one handed from the hip, in a low-light scenario using the things.

Does it mean I don't practice with my sights? No. Does it mean I don't turn them off and practice on fundamentals most of the time? No. Does it mean that I at least have the option of making precision shots in less than ideal situations that would not otherwise be the case while using them, giving me an added advantage in case something winds up happening where I have to clear leather protecting me and mine? Absolutely.

I can't see how people can possibly use them and not see the real-world advantages they offer, but to each their own. But, if using them means you can't really conceal your pistol or that the grips just aren't comfortable for you, that's different. YMMV.

ETA: Not enough pictures.


ETA II: @ Arroyo: Get both--that's what I did

I've never understood the point of those things. If you're firing from the hip or something and you actually hit your target, then you're already close enough that a laser isn't going to improve anything.

If you're in really low light conditions, and you know where you need to point the laser/gun, then you already know where your target is. It's not like the laser is illuminating the area. If you don't know where you need to point the laser/gun, then you need a light, not a laser.

If you're firing a weapon as it's supposed to be held, the laser will probably be obscured by the front sight or the slide/cylinder anyway.

And if your laser is sighted in at a really long distance, well.... the farther away the target is, the harder it will be to defend shooting him in a court room. As for the Luby's situation that someone mentioned earlier, I wouldn't want to be searching for a red dot at 60 feet on a moving target.

And if someone knows otherwise for a fact, then tell me, but.... I really don't think a laser sighted in for 60 feet from the muzzle is going to be "hidden" at three yards or so. Seems to me like it would end up just being a distraction.

Also, there are waaaaaay too many newbies buying these $300 things right off the bat for their first gun ever.

I think trigger control, tritium, and the longest sight radius you're willing to carry will serve you much better than any laser.

I'd rather spend that $300 on range time.

I wish I could find the longer spot on this from "Shooting USA", but you should be able to pick out a few areas that illustrate "the point of these things" from these videos by Todd Jarrett

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEM5SYknX9c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBmZ92e9QoM

My chief complaint is that I got the side activation model and couldn't activate the laser with a normal grip on the pistol. Shot great from the hip, but less great than irons in a more traditional 2-handed shooting position. I eventually decided I didn't want my carry pistol to have a different grip than all my others and took the CTs off.

They are expensive but when it comes to your life...I have them on my XD-9

JMOfartO:

I believe there are many more folks who previously did not want or appreciate the value of a quality laser on their self defense firearm changing their minds than there are folks who loved 'em initially changing teams..

I have no problem with folks who don't like lasers.. As long as I can have 'em on MY self defense firearms I'm happy.

I will say that I'm a lot happier knowing the $164.00 I paid for the Crimson Trace Laser for my Ruger LCP wasn't spent on $164.00 of range time instead.

That range time amounts to a lot of spent brass, and since I'm not "into" reloading that brass would do me no good the second I pulled the trigger, but the CT Laser on my little LCP is still doing the job it was designed, and purchased to do.

And when all else fails to convince the unbelievers, just let more time pass, and that 20/20 vision goes South on ya...

No offense to anyone..

"Quot capita tot sensus" applies, and this is just mine.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

PX15 said:

I will say that I'm a lot happier knowing the $164.00 I paid for the Crimson Trace Laser for my Ruger LCP wasn't spent on $164.00 of range time instead.

That range time amounts to a lot of spent brass, and since I'm not "into" reloading that brass would do me no good the second I pulled the trigger, but the CT Laser on my little LCP is still doing the job it was designed, and purchased to do.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean here. I was just saying that I think the money is better spent on practice.

RobMoore said:

I wish I could find the longer spot on this from "Shooting USA", but you should be able to pick out a few areas that illustrate "the point of these things" from these videos by Todd Jarrett

Click to expand...

RobMoore said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEM5SYknX9c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBmZ92e9QoM

Click to expand...

That's not actually by Todd Jarret. Those are just advertisements done by Crimson Trace. They hired Todd Jarret. Who I'm pretty sure can hit whatever he wants, lasers or no lasers.

A lot of things bother about those ads -- I think they're misleading because they don't resemble real world situations. For one thing, we're not all Todd Jarret, especially the people who are new to the sport and are trying to learn with lasers before they learn with sights.

Also keep in mind how controlled that environment is, and the fact that Crimson Trace probably wants Jarret to do as well as possible to advertise their product. So I'm sure he already knows before hand where the target is going to move to, how fast, and when.

The situations in the video don't mirror the chaos and randomness of real life. People don't move like machines. We're not nearly as steady, predictable, or consistent, and light conditions can quickly change -- for example, a car's headlights come on.

And half the time in that video, he had a proper grip on the pistol (does that guy shoot anything but 1911s, btw?) and it looked like his sights were aligned. How can you even see the dot?

"The further I get away from the target, the better chance I have of hitting him with a set of laser grips." What does that even mean?

Hey, if lasers work for you, great. I just don't understand how they can really be that useful.

I like the finish on the pistol he had when he was shooting while retreating and moving forward. Kimber Eclipse type slide with an all black frame.

Echo9,

What I was attempting to say is that everyone has his/her own opinion about everything..

You said you thought the money that might be spent on a Crimson Trace Laser would, FOR YOU, be better spent at the range, hopefully increasing your proficiency with your firearm of choice.

For ME, I only practice from self defense range, 3 yards max for my mouseguns, and a max of 7 yards for my 9's and 45ACP... I've done this for roughly 45 years and I feel quite confident that I will be able to hit a man sized target at center mass all day long at those distances with any of my pistols/revolvers with or without a laser.

I do NOT mean any offense, I'm just telling you what works for me, and that has absolutely nothing to do with what "works for you"..

IF I were a dedicated target shooter then range time would be a bigger deal for me. But being basically a "point and shoot" person, additional range time simply doesn't mean a whole lot.

Once I determine my self defense firearms are RELIABLE, which I consider job 1 in any carry weapon, then basically, from self defense distance, I don't think a laser, or fancy sights, or additional range time mean much.

I'd be willing to bet that at any reasonable self defense range YOU would be able to hit the center mass of a target, with or without more range time..

The only thing I feel I personally have ever accomplished with more "range time" is smaller groups when I'm target shooting.. Smaller groups are fun, but for self defense purposes, once you factor in all of the variables that are bound to affect a person's accuracy under such stressful conditions, I'm thinking smaller groups will be more affected by luck than skill acquired at the range..

I bought a laser for my Ruger LCP because I think they offer value beyond just projecting a red dot on a piece of paper.. I believe, and I know my belief is not universal, but it IS becoming more popular, that having a red beam projecting from your self defense firearm may NOT deter an aggressor, but it darn sure won't hurt..

If you are confronted by a current member of a SEAL team, or other professional, the red dot won't mean squat... But for your local gang-banger, or hoodlum, or thug, or whatever, it could well be just enough to cause that person, or person's to seek easier prey elsewhere.

Again, and I say this sincerely, NO OFFENSE to you...

I believe a forum is a place where a non-confrontational,free exchange of ideas between members is the object, and that free exchange is precisely what I mean by this post...

My opinion is certainly no more valuable than yours..

Best Wishes,

jesse

Hey, no offense taken. And I meant none either. Like I said, if it works for you, great. I had no intention of being confrontational. If anything I said came off that way, I apologize.

I totally agree about shooting tighter groups at longer ranges. That's not defense shooting. What I like to get out of range time is better consistency and control over the weapon. If you've been shooting for 45 years, I'll go ahead and assume you have that lol.

Bought a 642 with CT grips. The laser is okay, but I would be just as happy without it.

Echo, I think what he meant was that the further he gets from the target, the chances of him hitting get better with a laser as opposed to iron sights.

...and I've seen him shoot other platforms, but he does shoot for Para, so seeing him shoot mostly 1911s makes sense.

Have them, like them, wouldn't say that I couldn't live without them though. This isn't an option on the poll so me no votey votey.

Should i be able to use my Crimson trace in bright sunlight, or am i expecting to much? Does CT post ranges to use? Called my self looking at site but nothing..

Echo9:

Well, I've been a gun "nut" for roughly 65 years, (I'm going on 68)but only legally carrying a concealed weapon for a going on 44...





Please note the high quality and impressive caliber of my first new handgun purchase..... Not.. (But I only had $35.00, and the new Galesi was, go figure, $35.00.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

tackstrp:

As I mentioned to another gentleman, my mousegun self defense distance is 3 yards, max..

At three yards in bright sunlight I can see very clearly the red dot on the target, and I have three firearms CT laser equipped, no problem with seeing the dot with any of them.

In conditions of lower night the range increases..

My good friend and his son-in-law (an Army Sgt in the 3rd ID, who has been to Iraq 3 times) were working on his 4 wheeler (Rhino) in the garage roughly 4 acres behind our property.. I stood on the back porch and placed the red dot on the back wall (white) of the garage and they both hit the deck..

Now before you get too excited, the pistol was unloaded, no finger near the trigger, and my Buddy is always pulling such crap as that on me.

I was pleased at the range the red dot could be projected tho...

I believe that at "up close and personal" self defense range you will not be disappointed at the performance of the Crimson Trace laser, no matter the lighting conditions.

Just personal opinion, no offense to those who disagree, or even those who think the only good thing that can be done with the red dot of a laser is to drive the kitty crazy..

Best Wishes,

Jesse

Where's my "loved them and miss them cause I was dumb enought to sell them" option?



Joking...

I had a set on a beretta 96. Loved them, miss them (and the beretta)...improved my trigger control. I think night sights are superior, but the CT's can be a valuable added option. The fact that my index finger covered the laser until i was read to fire annoyed me.

I regret selling that beretta and the grips.:banghead:

if my eyes would allow me to see my iron sights, i would agree about dont need Crimson Trace or my favorite AimPoint Micro red dot for $561


With the sighting aids i can keep up with most shooters as long as I dont have to attempt runing and firing at same time. Get dizzy if move or stand up to fast

Love them and would want them on any carry gun. There are far more scenario's than one might think where you won't be able to put eyeball to sight. In these cases, they are indispensable. The ability to shoot from your hip and KNOW you will hit the target is worth the price of the CTC's alone. This makes innocent people safer by helping alleviate potential misses. It provides versatility to someone trying to escape an impending death. It is also an excellent training tool that really helps with trigger control. All that, and they are relatively unobtrusive.

IMO, CTC's are a can't lose proposition.

robhof

They don't work in sunlight, but that's when your eyes are at their best and the sights come in. For SD they make an amateur into a pro, my wife doesn't like guns but with the CT she enjoys opening up the bullseye. Practice with it enough and you can hit the center mass with it turned off, your muscle memory will get you in the kill zone.