Whats the deal with noveske and lwrc.

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O and i forgot. if you got butt hurt because you think i was bad mouthing you overpriced ar. you need to grow up. i just asked why so much. i didnt say anyone was stupid. talk about going overboard.if i wanted to deal with bs answers i would got ar15.com. i guess an intelligent answer is to much to.i expected more espacilly from a moderator.
I answered your question with my first post. Noveske and all the upper tier AR makers use higher quality parts, built correctly and then ran through better quality control. Thats stuff isnt cheap. Also these companies tend to be smaller so they dont get the price bonus of chugging out a bagillion rifles a year.

This is my Noveske N4 midlength carbine. It has better parts than either of my two Bushmasters, has a properly staked gas key and a correct front sight base. It cost me just over 1300 bucks which is 400 dollars more than one my Bushmasters and 250 dollars more than the other. I would choose this rifle hands down over either of my Bushmaster, or even my Colt 6520 (great rifle), if the SHTF.

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adam.lamb72 said:
Wow another dumb gunners mate comment. i must be doing something right. i am a qualified SAMI. I am warfare qualified and instructer at Recruit Training Command. That a job aviable to the top 10% of sailors.

You lack even a basic high school level of literacy in English - both writing and reading comprehension. For example, nobody called you dumb or made any dumb gunner's mate comment. In fact, if you had read and understood my post, you would see that I was skeptical you were a GM2; because I have never met a PO2 in the Navy with such a poor command of written English - and that includes a fair amount of Petty Officers who grew up speaking Tagalog, Spanish or other languages. Being illiterate isn't the same as being stupid.

Assuming you are telling the truth and aren't yet another 13yr old warrior with multiple Call of Duty tours under their belt, then all I can say is that you are never going to advance in the Navy unless you improve your literacy skills. You will definitely never make Chief with that level of writing.

As for being a Small Arms Marksmanship Instructor and warfare qualified; well, congratulations. As a former CTI, I wouldn't expect anything less of a GM2. In fact, I expect that a GM2 wouldn't be bragging about some fairly mundane qualifications that most people in his rate are going to have.

O and i forgot. if you got butt hurt because you think i was bad mouthing you overpriced ar. you need to grow up. i just asked why so much. i didnt say anyone was stupid. talk about going overboard.if i wanted to deal with bs answers i would got ar15.com. i guess an intelligent answer is to much to.i expected more espacilly from a moderator.

First things first, I do not moderate here. "Emeritus" is a latin word meaning "to earn one's discharge by service." I used to moderate here; but I found it took away from my enjoyment from the site. So I no longer do that and am the same as any other member.

Second, bitching about not getting an intelligent answer in semi-literate English after bragging about your qualifications is pure comedy gold. I don't know if you appreciate ironic humor; but literacy issues aside, you mastered it quite well in that response - everything from the "got butt hurt" comment to the 'i guess an intelligent answer is to much to.i expected" is just dripping with ironic humor. Thanks for the chuckle.

Personally, I was going to ignore your original post since I didn't think it was worthy of my time. I was just pointing out to bkjeffrey that just because someone says they are a GM2 on the Internet does not make it so; but since you have entertained me so well, the least I can do is help you with your question.

noveske. 3000$ lwrc 2500. its a gas piston ar. i can shoot as good with a custom model 1 upper and lcw 15 lower. 650$ i just dont see were the extra money is worth paying for a name.

OK, first, I cannot find any Noveske that costs $3,000. The most expensive model on their website is an VIS Recon model at $2,500.00. Second, I am not sure which Model 1 Sales rifle you are referring to - it is kind of difficult to discuss the differences in rifles, if you aren't specific about which two rifles you are trying to compare. I won't even get into the LWRC right now; because I am short on time.

I'll assume you meant to compare the $620 Model 1 Sales 18.5" 5.56 SPR to the most expensive Noveske model I found.

Here are the differences:

1. The Noveske will use polygonal rifling and have a hybrid chamber on a 16" barrel instead of the E. R. Shaw SS barrel with a 5.56 chamber on an 18.5" barrel.
2. Noveske will have M4 feed ramps.
3. Noveske will have the stainless steel barrel bead blasted matte
4. Noveske will use midlength gas system vs. rifle length gas system
5. Noveske will have a Switchblock gas block for suppressor use. M1S will have standard A2 gas block
6. Noveske will have M4 feed ramps in upper receiver.
7. Noveske will have Vltor VIS monolithic 9" upper receiver - meaning that the upper receiver and quad rail are a single piece and rigid enough to mount optics along the entire length of the rail. The M1S will have a flattop upper and round handguards.
8. The Noveske will have a shot-peened, MP tested bolt inside an M16 bolt carrier. The M1S will have a non-tested, non-shot peened bolt in an AR15 carrier - not sure if it is shrouded or unshrouded.
9. The Noveske will have a mil-spec forged charging handle. The M1S will have "a charging handle" which in all probability is a 6061 Extruded piece.
10. Noveske will have AAC 51 Blackout muzzle device instead of A2 muzzle device of M1S
11. Noveske will have mil-sepc receiver extension with Vltor iMod stock and Noveske QD endplate and H buffer. M1S will have standard A2 stock and extension.
12. Noveske will have Troy flip front and rear sights. The M1S will have an A2 gas block if you want it, otherwise no sights.
13. Noveske has Tangodown grip. M1S has standard A2 grip.

There are probably a few more differences; but that should be plenty to get you started - and since you are a GM2, I won't have to explain what each of those pieces do, so we save time there as well. As you can see though, accuracy is only part of the difference. There are many smaller areas where the differences add up.
 
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^ Thanks Bartholomew for taking the time to put my thoughts into words.

.i wish i culd c ur face aftur that post adam. :)
 
Excellent post, Bart. I have to agree with you as far as using proper writing comprehension. I'm just a dumb MSgt who is working on his degree, and reading his posts is just painful. I'll be the first to say that I will not always use the proper there, their, they're, but for the love of John Moses Browning and Brother Garand, is it really that difficult to actually use proper capitalization and sentance structure? If one of my troops wrote that badly, I would do everything in my power to make sure that he took some classes. Hell, I learned more about sentances through my love of reading than I did in the classes I had in high school!

Your comparisson of both rifles was very good, and I took it as an education.
 
I'm pretty sure it's okay if I hijack this thread, so hey, Bart, that's an impressive list of differences, and I have to admit that I'm clueless as to half of what it meant. Any good links I could use to educate myself? "Shot-peened, shrouded, H Buffer..." I am in awe and wish to learn. Teach me, oh sensai.
 
Ok, well I’m looking into buying an AR-15 and was going to go the route of M1S, but after reading these responses I need a little more info.


1. Heard M1S sells to big name companies, is this true and if so which ones? (The M1S website looks like RRA’s Website)
2. I am looking for a rifle for weekend shooting (nothing sport or tactical purpose) M1S not recommended?
3. If you say M1S isn’t what I should get then what?
4. RRA v Bushmaster v Stag v Noveske
5. Have any of you heard of Crusader Weaponry in Utah? What about his product of AR’s?

Thanks!
 
2. I am looking for a rifle for weekend shooting (nothing sport or tactical purpose)
4. RRA v Bushmaster v Stag v Noveske

Forget the Noveske then. Go with the Stag, Bushmaster, RRA, or even a S&W M&P15. You'll be happy with any of them for weekend shooting. You should be able to find one of them under $800 if you look in the right places. A used one would be even less.
 
Well, they're born every day, but hey...it keeps me in beer money!

The turd is nearly into the fan, buy expensive! Please! lol

I may be new to AR's but...... WHAT?
 
Plus you just ain't cool over at arfcom unless you have a Noveske, LMT, or whatever else is flavor this month. ;-)
 
Please keep up. BCM was last month. This month's flavor is Spikes. Noveske and LMT are soooooo last season.

: )
 
Cool... so none of you guys are able to answer my questions?! I am very new and don't know much to anything.

Anyone hear of YHM barrels?

I think ive concluded to piece together an AR no kits, just pieces.

What do you guys think of this?
 
AdamLamb 72 you should take your thoughts over to Tacticalforums.com
We would really like to discuss this there, ask for Mad Dog's opinion! :evil:
 
Cool... so none of you guys are able to answer my questions?! I am very new and don't know much to anything.

Anyone hear of YHM barrels?

I think ive concluded to piece together an AR no kits, just pieces.

What do you guys think of this?
YHM akes some decent AR stuff but I have never heard of their barrels.

If all you want the rifle to do is shoot targets on the weekend, any of the manufacturers will work. But dont expect a 600 dollar AR kit gun to run through thousands of rounds with little maintenance and still be reliable. It very well might, but I wouldnt count on it.

But you can very well build your own top of the line fighting rifle and come out pretty cheap.

Check out www.bravocompanyusa.com for a source of quality parts.

Ive never heard of Crusader Weaponry so I cant really comment. But looking at their website, I would rather buy a proven quality BCM for cheaper.
 
C-Grunt thanks so much, I plan on piecing together a good rifle (RRA Lower and Upper) decent-good internals (Barrel unknown)

I kinda wanted to stay in the 700ish range but after looking into this a little further I found I might be in the 900-1100ish range for a good rifle that will last my lifetime.

Thanks for the help, and I will be back with more questions about piece's later!
 
This www.bravocompanyusa.com BCM and VLTOR good parts? if so I might just use most to all for my internals, and might get a Noveske Barrel Assembly (still thinking about the YHM) and call it a day.

What about the lower parts kit? should I stick with RRA pack or something better?
 
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Probably, you would be better off buying a completed rifle than building one, as to the cost.

Any of the name brand manufacturers will be 'good enough' for what you say you plan to do with this rifle.

If you just plain ol' want to build it yourself, stick to the brands you hear of the most, well, hear of good things the most!

RRA offers a completed rifle like you describe for around $900ish retail, last I checked.
 
Please keep up. BCM was last month. This month's flavor is Spikes. Noveske and LMT are soooooo last season.

: )

I must not have gotten the group email this month. I feel so inadequate with my RRA. What will the guys down at the gun club think of me if I show up with that?
 
My $700 Del-Ton will run alongside any top tier AR.
My Del-Ton will be just as accurate too.
But only if I'm shooting it...because I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a rifle and all I do is run through about 100 rounds at the range every couple of months. haha

Model 1, Del-Ton, DPMS, they all work fine for people like me who just want an AR to blast at the range.
If I was in the military or an LEO, or even if it was my home defense gun then you'd bet I'd drop 3 times as much for a Noveske or similar. When you pay more you get higher quality materials, higher build quality, and just as important you get the quality control. You can't always see visually what you're paying for.
 
I like that idea too,

I have a new idea (scary)

How bad would you guys make fun of someone who bought a Model 1 used it till parts started to wear out, then replace with high quality parts?
 
I think the Model 1 is probably going to be fine for the purposes you outlined xarons21. Here are the concerns I would have though:

Parts are going to be hit and miss with Model 1 Sales. More hit than miss to be sure; but it will happen on occasion. Because you are buying a kit (meaning you'll have to do some of the assembly) and you are a relatively new guy to ARs, it will be difficult for you to know whether the problem is the rifle or your assembly - leaving you at the mercy of Model 1 Sales with regard to how they want to handle any problems that do develop.

Now that isn't as bad as it sounds. From what I've read, Model 1 Sales is more generous about that stuff than they have to be and has decent customer service; but if you don't have a certain amount of exploratory curiousity, you may be buying a lot of frustration with the money you save.

If you don't mind learning and tweaking the rifle, I think buying a cheaper model and upgrading over time can be a good idea. It is fairly easy to upgrade ARs - so you can just shoot it and change things to suit your style of shooting.

If you had to rely heavily on the rifle (say you had $3,000 tied up in ammo, hotel and plane tickets for a class at Gunsite, used it daily in law enforcement, or were going to rely on it as the primary means of defending your home), then I might advocate a different approach. In addition to the link above to "The Chart", give the "THR Rifle Forum Reading Library" thread tacked at the top of this forum a read. It has lots of good information.
 
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