1911 Home Defense

Carry one, have another around the house and one on the night stand. Only way to have a 1911 is condition 1. Unless of course there are kids around. I don't know of any experts who wont recommend condition 1 starting with Jeff Cooper.

Be that as it may, I keep my longslide .45 Super cocked and locked right next to my flashlight.

why does this keep coming up...it wasn't designed to be carried that way

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That would be true...if the OP was talking about defending his house with an original 1911.

I'm going out on a limb and stating that OP's 1911 has a safety, and is therefore designed to be kept cocked and locked. I'm sure you and others here know that the original 1911 and the modern-day 1911 have quite a few differences, enough to be considered different firearms.

That would be true...if the OP was talking about defending his house with an original 1911.

I'm going out on a limb and stating that OP's 1911 has a safety, and is therefore designed to be kept cocked and locked. I'm sure you and others here know that the original 1911 and the modern-day 1911 have quite a few differences, enough to be considered different firearms.

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Your misunderstanding.

The 1911 that was designed by John Browning on commission from the US Army with their input to incorporate a manual safety is, for all intents and purposes, the same 1911 we see today.

The original design had no safety. It was refined to include one and it was this pistol that was NOT designed to be carried cocked and locked but rather was designed to be carried hammer down on an empty chamber but still COULD be cocked and locked if immenent danger/battle/fighting was present.

It was highly convenient that it COULD be cocked and locked so right now 100 years later us civilians can carry a 1911 condition one and ready to fight.

Having said all that whenever someone makes the blanket statement about "1911s being desinged to be carried cocked and locked" I just ignore it because to correct them would take too much time and energy such as I am displaying here.

There was a time too when I thought the 1911 was desgned to be carried cocked and locked but all you have to do is read the Army manual on it and you quickly figure out this is not the case.

Rondog said:

Bad advice, IMO. He might have to try charging it while barely awake, with a thug charging him! It's FAR easier to click that safety off than to fumble around trying to pull and release the slide with some goon on top of you. Spooks enter your home fully awake, while you're fully asleep. If you can't safely keep a 1911 in Con 1 and not fret about it, you shouldn't have one.

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For a carry gun, as I said, it should be in condition 1. But for a nightstand gun, it should be in condition 3. Off body carry means that you and others are going to be handling the gun often. Carrying it from room to room, so on and on. I am telling you, that in cases like that, ND / AD chances go through the roof. I don't even use autos for HD. In order to carry it in condition 1, you would need to make sure you have a secure place to keep it... Then why carry it that way, when you can keep it in condition 3 in a night stand?

This isn't the movies, in any kind of break in you have some modicum of time. Charging a gun takes less than a second. If in that time you end up dead, chances are it would have ended that way anyway. Not to mention, he has a revolver for that, as he said. Also a shotgun...

I find it odd that you are nervous about someones ability to charge a gun in the early morning hours, but it is OK to have his barely awake and scared / pumped up mind on keeping his finger off the trigger...

I'm going to add fuel to the fire and say the final design was that the 1911 is carried cocked and locked.

But for a nightstand gun, it should be in condition 3.

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Maybe if you're tossing it onto a pile of nightstand junk or into a drawer.

Off body carry means that you and others are going to be handling the gun often.

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How is that a given?

Keep it in a holster and leave it there in condition one, regardless of the design of the handgun.
DA revolver - holstered with all chambers hot
DA/SA pistol - holstered with safety applied or decocked as applicable, full mag full chamber
DAO pistol - holstered with a round in the pipe, full mag
SAO pistol (1911) - holstered, full mag, loaded chamber, safety applied if applicable
Striker pistol - holstered with a round in the pipe, full mag

If you just can't resist the compulsion to fondle your guns, by all means keep them unloaded, with trigger locks and cable locks applied, keep their magazines empty and stored elsewhere while you're at it.
But if you can at least pretend to be responsible (keep pretending, it becomes a habit) then a holstered gun with a round in the pipe is hardly a safety concern. You don't even need a fancy $70 holster for a house gun, some cheap crap from the gun shop will do just fine as long as it offers some measure of retention and keeps the trigger protected.

mbt... mbt... mbt... if someone is so incompetent with a particular gun as to have an AD or whatever while performing a task with that gun... well, then they shouldn't own that gun because they obviously don't know how to handle it properly and are a danger to all others within its' range.

To not have a weapon at its most ready makes having that weapon a moot point in reality. Because, in reality, if the SHTF, every quarter of a second counts and that quarter of a second it takes to rack the slide could've been spent firing the first shot that could save your butt... and that quarter second is an ideal time under perfect conditions (awake, aware, not surprised or nervous, well lit area, etc. etc. etc.).

Carry and store a 1911 that is intended as an immediate action defensive weapon in condition 1 or get a different gun. Plain and simple.

You don't make excuses for being unprepared using "what if's"... know your gun and safety principles. A 1911 in condition 1 is still safer than most (if not all) other autos.

Among other things, I keep a Norinco M1911 condition 1. I don't want to be screwing around trying to chamber a round in the middle of the night.

I don't want to be screwing around trying to chamber a round in the middle of the night.

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What?!? that's silly, you want your handsgun to be ready to go with a two-hand operation, because you'd NEVER be holding something in the other hand (phone, doorknob, flashlight).
And someone might fiddle with it while it sits in the holster, so you better keep the chamber empty. In fact, you should be twice as safe and keep a snap-cap as the top round in the magazine!

I don't want to be screwing around trying to chamber a round in the middle of the night.

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What?!? that's silly, you want your handsgun to be ready to go with a two-hand operation, because you'd NEVER be holding something in the other hand (phone, doorknob, flashlight).
And someone might fiddle with it while it sits in the holster, so you better keep the chamber empty. In fact, you should be twice as safe and keep a snap-cap as the top round in the magazine!

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Apparently you don't know what "condition 1" means...

I'll go with "the 1911 WAS not originally designed to be carried con 1", so long as we can also run with "currently, the 1911 IS designed to be carried con 1". JMHO.

Case by case with HD; depends who's around. I'm having a hard time imagining a situation where con 3 would be useful for my own commanders: anything con 3 can do, a gunvault-type safe can do better. And with an edc weapon, the holster, as others have mentioned already, makes going to the gun the same way regardless of time of day a prudent reality.

Deanimator said:

Apparently you don't know what "condition 1" means...

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Were you referring to my blatantly sarcastic post?

The 1911 was designed so that it could be safely placed in Condition One...temporarily...not specifically to be carried that way. As far as the function of the various safety features on the gun...it's the same as it was and always has been. No...The Series 80 and Swartz systems don't change that. Their intent was and is to make the gun more drop-safe...not to make it safer for cocked and locked carry.

The gun is safe to carry in Condition One. At least, as safe as any loaded gun can be, and safer than many...but that was neither Browning's nor the US Army's intent. If Browning had any intent at all, it was to use the half-cock as a safe carry mode...and it's even mentioned in the original patents.

There has been A 1911 of some type on my hip or on the nightstand for nearly 40 years.
Condition 1 cocked and locked. Right or wrong.

Being safe is GREAT. Being safe at the expense of placing yourself in an inferior position during an imminent conflict... is not.

Like Badlander, my connection to the 1911 goes back several decades. I'm as comfortable with it as I am with a dinner fork. I don't keep one on or in my nightstand for those things that go slam-bang in the night. A well-used Model 10 loaded with standard velocity 158 grain SWCs does that duty.

Why a .38 when a .45 is available?

Given adequate warning, I'll reach for the coach gun. The dogs are my early warning system...so chances are that I'll get to that gun. SWMBO reaches for the revolver in case something gets past me and the shotgun. In a worst-case thing, the teenage daughter can handle the revolver under stress. She and mama both are rather small, and the .45 is a little too big for them to be comfortable with in a fast-moving situation...though they are both familiar with it and can handle it on the firing range. In an emergency, they've both indicated that they're more comfortable with a revolver.

And, even if they weren't a factor...the nightstand gun would still be the Model 10. I'm confident enough with the gun and my ability with it under low light, in a hurry, across my bedroom.

If you trust yourself to handle a cocked and locked pistol when suddenly awakened and are still groggy, Condition One is fine. Otherwise, home defense is the one situation where I feel Condition Three is an appropriate option. Having to perform a complex series of actions helps ensure you are fully awake. Also, if your first clue of danger is suddenly finding the BG standing over your bed, you need serious work on the rest of your home defense strategy.

1911's are designed to be kept cocked and locked, round in the chamber.

I have two pistols and a revolver for house defense. One pistol is a 1911 and I keep it with a round in the chamber and cocked and locked.

1911's are special, keep one in the chamber, safety off, but hammer down. easier for me to pull the hammer but harder to accidently discharge it. I tell my wife that i don't keep one in the chamber, because she doesn't quite get the whole gun thing, but I don't let her handle it without properly clearing the chamber.

1911's are designed to be kept cocked and locked, round in the chamber.

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Nope. Common misconception.

Well, mine's a 1911 but in 10mm. Condition 1 with safety on. I have others that I could use but it's like an extension of my hand. It's as normal as breathing to me. I'm alone but I don't really think it would matter.

Usually cocked and locked at home, within reach, no kids to worry about. When travelling, I sometimes will have it under me (sleeping bag, etc) or the pillow, and Condition 1 makes me a little nervous, as I might get my hand on it an do something stupid WHILE asleep, so I will go chamber empty, loaded magazine (Condition 3). Not for everybody, but I definitely don't want to be wrapping my hand around a DA revolver or fully loaded auto. Maybe a SA revolver would be safer?