Pump or Semi for HD?

Interesting that most of the people who shoot three gun competition use automatics. The Marines use a Benelli M4 - oh, yeah that's an automatic, and no one has ever, apparently short-stroked a pump, jamming it....

I have an FNL SLP that will be sent to SMS for the SureCycle system and reliabililty package - and I'll put it up against a pump any day, any time. My wife feels much better with the automatic than a pump - I have both, and the auto is easier to operate, aim and use. A cheap auto - your problem, an expensive reliable auto - far better than a pump.

Pump. 590 or 590A1. Reliable. I've written-off the 930 SPX for ergonomics and when a gun absolutely positively has to function, though I had hope...

The only semi-auto I trust is the Benelli M1/M2 Armi System and if I have a choice, it's still a pump.

Al

My Mossberg 930 with a four round magazine was very picky about ammo

Would not cycle with the Ranger reduced recoil 00 Buck

I think a pump is the way to go.

I prefer the pump. Personal choice is a Winchester 120 (economy 1200), but as has been stated repeatedly, its whatever you are comfortable with and have faith in. I like my 120 cause I've been pulling the trigger on it for 24 years.
Also, if I was an intruder, the sound of slide racking in the dark is unmistakable and would DEFINITELY make me leave the premises. While I firmly believe that I could shoot-to-kill someone that was invading my home, I don't know that I want that on my conscious for the rest of my life. Something to be said for de-escalation.

Pump, for the same reason i like revolvers for HD, simplicity and reliability are paramount when your betting your life on using it under pressure.

I prefer a pump. Reason? Less maintenance (less babysitting needed) and inherently more reliable.

just an observation...no one recommending an auto is saying the pump isn't more reliable. they are just saying that the pump action is more prone to operator error

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....while the semi-auto is more prone to weapon induced malfunction (to one degree or another).

The biggest "operator error" I can think of, in terms of pump shotguns, is short stroking. This is easily overcome as it is not a problem based on inherent platform instabilities. Rather, it is merely a result of bad form and/or improper handling on the part of the user.

Regardless of "operator error," which one of these would be the least complicated to "bring back in to service" should a malfunction occur? Off the top of my head, I would bet on the pump shotgun.

A friend of mine talked me into buying a shotgun because neither of us had one. He was sold on the 930 spx from the day he first saw it, ignoring all of the bad reviews I told him about... The gun doesn't shoot light loads well and you can forget about shooting dragon's breath or anything like that from it because we tried and it does not work.

This is my 590a1, it's the 20" 9 shot model that comes with the m9 bayonet. The round count is at about 500 and I haven't had a malfunction of any kind.

There's no One True Way here. Either a proven Pump or Autoloader will work in a given crisis if WE ARE UP TO IT.

Proven?

Well known to the user and passing the Ayoob Test (200 rounds of duty ammo w/o a problem).

Get what you want, but learn to run it.......

For me, semi-auto, mossberg 930 spx. Mine is reliable with the loads I shoot it with as long as it is cleaned every 200 rounds or so.

I think that the majority of the 'finicky' reputation earned from shotgun autoloaders comes from people shooting light loads out of shotguns that have been designed specifically for the recoil from full power loads. I don't know how many times i've seen people post their shotgun is finicky...except with full power loads. Why people expect (especially recoil operated semiauto shotguns) NOT to be finicky with reduced power loads is beyond me. It's like shooting a .22CB round from a semiauto pistol and wondering why it doesn't cycle the action correctly.

If you're loading low recoil rounds into your shotgun you'd be better off getting a .223 carbine for your home defense or something along those lines.

If you buy a semiauto shotgun, #1 load it with full power loads that will reliably cycle the action - or #2 replace the recoil spring with a lighter one and never use full power shells (ugh).

I'd go with #1; using low power shotgun rounds as a defensive load kind of defeats the purpose of using a shotgun for defense.

A quality semiauto shotgun loaded with correct power loads will often be more reliable the equivalent pump action, especially in the hands of someone who has not trained extensively and been in some high stress situations with a pump action shotgun previously. People underestimate short stroking as a problem when in reality it is very common in high stress situations.

the pump is prone to operator error if you're an untrained, limpwristed milquetoast


OR


if you're a mall ninja who needs a Benelli or nothing



Semis are fine, just don't put them out to be something they aren't. A finely tuned pump is still king. Sorry to burst your bubble



a Tromix Saiga embarrasses the SLP and the M4

I would say that both the auto and the pump can suffer from user error. While the most common user error with a pump is the short stroke, I think the most common error with an autoloading shotgun is an improper mount, creating the equivalent of a "limp wrist" jam. Even with practice, a mount can go wrong in the heat of competition or of something more dire.

Practice with your chosen tool is worthwhile. Sometimes I just shoot doubles with my 870 TB just to get some practice "running the gun". I also try, on my backyard range only, to shoot the fragments of a broken clay bird with a second shell.

I'm a dedicated fan of the KISS principle. Since my wife, son, and daughter are pretty much disinterested in spending more than minimal time practicing their shotgunning I keep a single shot with a 5-shell butt cuff handy. I can fire and reload it rapidly without even thinking, and it's mostly intuitive and foolproof just in case one of them needed to defend themselves when I'm not at home.

There are times when more firepower might be critical, but there's also virtue in simplicity.

the pump is prone to operator error if you're an untrained, limpwristed milquetoast


OR


if you're a mall ninja who needs a Benelli or nothing



Semis are fine, just don't put them out to be something they aren't. A finely tuned pump is still king. Sorry to burst your bubble



a Tromix Saiga embarrasses the SLP and the M4

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Have you given a decent semi enough of a fair assessment to make that statement, and if so, would that make you one of the above?

Bud Tugly said:

I'm a dedicated fan of the KISS principle. Since my wife, son, and daughter are pretty much disinterested in spending more than minimal time practicing their shotgunning I keep a single shot with a 5-shell butt cuff handy. I can fire and reload it rapidly without even thinking, and it's mostly intuitive and foolproof just in case one of them needed to defend themselves when I'm not at home.

There are times when more firepower might be critical, but there's also virtue in simplicity.

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Sold my sister and brother-in-law a restored antique Trapdoor Springfield carbine and gave them a box of .410 #4 shotshells (plus a glass case with five .45-70's) for use in "the big city" as it is all they've got that's legal. They can still put a hole thru the door if they need to.
Al

Mossberg pump.

I would say a semi for HD is just fine so long as its a reliable semi.
For military, swat or other similar I would say a pump is better as you can use less lethal or tear gas rounds in these.

PUMP!

For rifles too! (Love my Remington 760's!)

that's why you rack after shooting, not before.

" officers were pinned down by the sidewalk and took cover in the gutter. the were issued the Ithaca 37 pump action at the time and were unable to rack the action without exposing themselves above the curb "
I'm sorry I dont think thats a weapons system failure thats a tactical error.
Regardless of the weapon, if the engagement ranges and lack of cover wont allow you to rack a pump shotgun, it certainly wont allow you to reload or fire an aimed shot in a semi either.
You can move into an ambush if you want, but don't blame the gun.

Keep it simple. Pump.

And IMO, the ideal H/D shotgun is a .410 P/G pump.
Let the flames begin!

And IMO, the ideal H/D shotgun is a .410 P/G pump.

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I trust my SLP.