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Which ammo would you pick between these two for HD?

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At HD range, if you missed with the slug, you also missed with the shot.

Well, I didn't mean missing the whole target :), but where you aimed within the target. Granted, we're not talking about handgun rounds here, but people can sometimes be quite resilient, and every additional wound track aids shot placement. It's like a slug+ rather than anything truly new or special, and I'd prefer to use a standard or low-recoil load of #4-#00 buckshot instead (unless I needed a slug load for some reason, in which case the PDX1 would be more worthy of consideration).
 
but people can sometimes be quite resilient


apparently they can be EXTREMELY resilient when we're afraid to trust 00 buckshot out of a 12 gauge


living things don't like getting hit with 2 3/4" 00 buck...at all


when people say "double aught buck" theyre referring to traditional 2 3/4" double aught buck...3" capabilities didn't come into vogue until long after the 2 3/4" 00 buckshot had a long steady track record of settling arguments and keeping the peace....and even when the 3" concept gained ground it was a waterfowl thing and the 3" buckshot and slug market being an afterthought/large game option..

if you don't trust 2 3/4" 00 buck in how it both patterns and performs, you aren't real acquainted with real world results, people.....
 
Having done my own pattern tests and penetration tests from a variety of distances, with my gun I prefer #1 buck over 00. I use an FN SLP with the Briley SK choke in a diffusion choke pattern. At 30-feet the pattern from the #1 covers an area about 18-inches in diameter. The Winchester PDX1 is fun to shoot, but not too practical inside of a house.

The Hevi-Shot HD is another option. It has 35, .20 caliber (T) size shot. It patterns about like the #1, but with a lot more pellets. Haven't tried it with wallboard to find out how many sheets it will go through - but, for people who think they want to use bird shot - the Hevi-Shot is a whole lot better.
 
Das,
There is zero reason to insist on a 3-inch shell for reliable "one-stop" use at the distances you're talking about inside a house.
Honest, guy, generations of cops have used non-magnum 2 3/4-inch 00 Buck very successfully on the job to do just that.

You're setting yourself up to fight the gun, not the assailant.
You're also restricting your overall utility. First you talk about carrying your shotgun in the woods, then using it inside the home.

A standard 2 3/4-inch 00 buck load will handle both. A reduced recoil load will extend distances for all-round utility. The Flitecontrol stuff will extend distances even farther, for much greater utility.

If you insist on sticking with your 3-inch Mags, you're beating yourself up and cutting your effective distance way down for absolutely zero benefit.
Much overkill indoors, inadequate range outdoors.

You seem to be having a hard time accepting the concept, but 2 3/4-inch loads will do anything you need doing indoors, and the Flitecontrol will handle any personnel, wolf, cougar, or rabid coyote threat in the woods outdoors.

3-inchers were, as mentioned above, originally a hunting development for birds, and extended into the defensive & fur hunting market later on.

Again- no professional defensive school I know teaches or advocates the 3-inch shell, and no PD I've ever encountered issues or advocates it.
It's simply not needed, and it performs worse in the respects also mentioned above.

Firing from under the armpit increases your chances of a miss, and also makes recovery time longer between shots because of lack of control with 3-inch Magnums.
And, I'd drop the idea of concentrating on a one-shot stop. Fire one, immediately cycle & re-target, repeat if necessary. As also pointed out above, it's quite possible to miss even with a shotgun, and followups should always be a part of the expectation & the readiness.

I was trying out some 3-inchers for function in a new Beretta Storm last week. Even in a semi-auto, those things take longer to re-target. Fighting major recoil while cycling a pump & trying to re-target makes for complication I don't need.

Not trying to be confrontational, just pointing out some facts.
I can "handle" 3-inchers, I just see no point in trying, and I don't mind saying it right out in public.

Denis
 
Amen Denis, but see, so far the Op has completely ignored those who have commented

So to the OP, Please go to wally world (I suspect you were already there) and get the PGO road blocker with the really nasty muzzle device, its quite intimidating, and look the part...

Eventually you will realize that Hollywood is wrong (the do hate guns, and you don't expect an anti to bother getting it right)
Most of the plain jane vanilla stuff that is used by everybody, is used by everybody because it works so well. Now if you want to be blowing your neighbors away and punching huge holes in you wall, well it's your life.

Just remember, castle doctrine only protects you in your home, when your bullets intrude on your neighbors, you are still responsible.
 
If you want to "up" your pellet count, then a 2.75" #1 Buck load gives you 16 pellets of sufficient size and won't have nearly the recoil of any 3" load, nor will it reduce your capacity.
 
Guys come on, keep it civil. Opinions being like noses and all, offer the opinion civil-like. Rather or not we have faith in the 2 3/4 load and rather he chooses the 3 inch isn't important. The OP did state he was going to spend some range time with the loads he likes. Also, the original question was buck vs the pdx1 loads, not length of shell.
 
This has progressed beyond me taking anything helpfull away from it now.
1 person even made my ignore list too.

And WVMB is correct in how this has gotten way of track.
My only mention of outside was to make a point of how loud the gun was, Its a 100% HD gun.
My question was answered and i wont be buying the PDX1, 80% of the other advice was not asked for, Relevant or needed.

To those who truly helped, Thank you.
Now to PM a mod and report my own thread to have this mess locked up tight.
 
Now to PM a mod and report my own thread to have this mess locked up tight.
I don't see a mess. I see a bunch of folk that tried to express solid opinions with a minimum of personal attacks and snark (save perhaps one specific post). The fact that you didn't ask for some of those opinions does not render them worthless.

This is not my forum, but I am disinclined to lock this thread down since it potentially represents a teaching opportunity for any newbie that reads it...
 
Well since you wont lock it as i have no interest in being personally put down for my own decisions whether people agree with them or not.
Some good info is in the thread i agree, But it has went down hill from there and thus deserving being locked as it never gets better once it heads down this path.

It also seems the mods believe the thread should remain open due to the fact they most likley agree with the info posted that i didn't ask for. When a thread goes off topic and starts having rude comments, Just because you agree with the off topic info doesn't mean the thread is helpful any longer.
Anyhow i wont discuss the original question or any off topic subject either.

The thread is now about Penguins and why they cant be trained to wear snowshoes.
 
Fwiw I have now become a new convert to low recoil buck shot.
2 3/4 is just fine by me and my old shoulder.
What took them so long or me to discover it?
Will try out some of the Federal with the flitecontrol wad pretty soon.
The Winchester Winlites in 00 were a pure pleasure to shoot.
 
80% of the other advice was not asked for, Relevant or needed.


Pretty much sums up your attitude. You received a host of information. It only got dicey when you rudely declared that you had a total willingness to ignore it. It's not like I come out of the woodwork to attack anyone, if you're rude though...expect me to let you know. If you "don't want to discuss" something...don't make threads or post...simple as that. Everyone's entitled to an opinion here (even if it's misguided). I'm okay being on your ignore list....I think with the attitude you've displayed, everyone else might as well be, too.

This is a good thread with a lot of good info so I hope it doesn't get locked.
 
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I was expressing my doubt over the PDX1 load, not a full load of #00 buck.


I know...I was saying in general. The op, for some reason, seems to lack faith in the most traditional of buckshot rounds and it's a little perplexing. Handgun rounds, sure...rounds in a black rifle, ok...but if we're feeling buckshot is anemic than we're in trouble... :D
 
You're setting yourself up to fight the gun, not the assailant. Fighting major recoil while cycling a pump & trying to re-target makes for complication I don't need.
In context of 3" 12 ga. I totally agree.
The first round of 3" 00buck dazed me mentally, I kept shooting the tube empty as i figured the damage was done already.
In context of not having ear protection........as you won't in a H/D situation.
Buckshot patterns at typical HD range are barely larger then the hole the slug makes.
So a 12 ga. doesn't spread any more than a .410. And the pellets are moving at the same velocity.

I have a Mossberg 500 in 12 ga. that I don't have a problem shooting, After reading all the opinions makes me convinced that the best H/D might be a .410.
 
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I use a Bond Arms Derringer w/410-000-5 pellet buckshot, in a shoulder holster, right side when on motorcycle and left side when driving car. In my belt I carry a Ruger sp101, 357 mag. At home I use Mossberg 500, 12ga. Shot spread is not a problem where I live. Open area wooded, I have target shooting areas set up as far as 200yds for practice.
 
Re the penguin question, if you're still here Das, it's not my intention to be insulting or sarcastic, just to provide information.
I answered your original question, and then expanded on it, since it appeared to me that you were basing your HD decisions on uninformed reasoning.
That's certainly your right, your decision, your problem, and your life.
Turning down good info because it doesn't meet your own pre-conceptions isn't always advisable, though, and what I gave you was based on my own experiences in patterning through a half-dozen or so defensive shotguns and multiple loads over several years, training I've gotten, training I've given (former police instructor), and the accumulation of decades of 2 3/4-inch 00 Buck in law enforcement hands.
In your HD scenario, the 3-inch Mag simply offers no advantage whatever, and carries some very clear baggage with it.

GAM,
I was refering specifically to the 3-inchers in that comment. Working a 12-gauge pump with 3-inch Mags extends shot recovery & re-target time & adds complexity over a 2 3/4-inch shell.

On buck patterns at HD distances being barely larger than a slug hole-

Beretta Storm At 7 Yards (21 Feet) With 2 3/4-Inch 00 Buck:

Win Ranger LE 6 1/8 Inches
Rem Reduced Recoil LE 2 13/16 Inches
Win Double X (2 3/4-Inch) Mag 8 7/16 Inches
Win PDX1 5 11/16 Inches
Fed Flitecontrol 1 1/8 Inches

Again, shotgun barrels vary widely & pattern differently, so another one wouldn't produce these exact results, but the general trend holds true.

This also demonstrates quite clearly that it's entirely possible to miss completely at relatively close ranges if the gun is not aimed.
Firing from an under-arm position is highly questionable unless you're at very close distances. Yes, with some practice & effort a certain degree of proficiency can be achieved, but in general it's inefficient, and particularly so in dealing with the recoil of a magnum load.

Denis
 
I use 2 3/4" Magnum Remington 12 pellet 00 Buck loaded in the magazine of my 12ga semi for home defense, and keep another half dozen rounds of Barnes solid copper 3" sabot slugs in the stock shell holder.
 
2 3/4 Mags are better than 3-inch Mags, but still spread much more rapidly than standard 2 3/4s.
Again, velocity is a major determinant in rapidity of pattern spread.
Denis
 
Just to chime in the conversation, if your life is one the line, several rounds of any 00 buck shot loads in the head/chest area, at close encounter range, would/should kill intruder instantly. If intruded is high on crank, he/she/it, another couple of rounds to head area would totally remove the perps head. Even regular birdshot would do in a pinch. I have a Remy 870 L.E. with a 7+1 capabilty. I have to agree with valorius on stock shell holder. Sure hope it never comes to this.
JT
 
2 3/4 Mags are better than 3-inch Mags, but still spread much more rapidly than standard 2 3/4s.
Again, velocity is a major determinant in rapidity of pattern spread.
Denis
I think you are under the mistaken impression that a 3" or 2 3/4" magnum buckshot has higher velocity. This is not the case, the magnum buckshot has a lower velocity than standard buckshot of the same diameter, it is only a "magnum" in the sense that it is a longer shell containing more shot.
 
I think because 12ga buckshot is so marginal that we should just stop playing with these toy guns and get a .50 BMG. But make sure you load it with .50 BMG +P+ ammo, just in case.
 
Question? Then the spread must be because the shot is being deformed, is this right?
 
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