So, carbon versus stainless.

It Depends

I have some Case in CV, some in "Tru-Sharp" stainless. The CV performs better. CV takes a satin-grey patina. I would happily use this steel in any knife pattern.

I have a couple of Boker sodbusters in carbon steel. Excellent edge take-and-hold characteristics. Not as rust resistant as CV, patina is darker black. Also have some Opinels in carbon steel. Darn fine blades. Patina not as dark as the Bokers, but lacks that satin-smooth character of the CV.

I have several knives in Sandvik stainless (12c27, 13c26, and 14c28). It's a really nice steel family that will take and hold a good edge and resist staining really well.

I also have several in 440C and 420HC. The heat treat renders them hard enough that sharpening 440C is often troublesome for the average bear. Evidently 420HC is a slight improvement in balancing hardness/wear resistance/stain resistance against wear and tear on blanking machinery. It performs about as well as 440C and has lower production costs since it's easier on the machines.

Some in AUS-8A. Seems to be a good steel. Don't like it as much as the Sandvik, though.

I have a couple of S30V stainless. Tough stuff, that.

I have a whole bunch of no-name stainless whose quality is all over the place.

Generally, any more, I try to avoid stainless that doesn't have some sort of pedigree. Modern stainless can be really good. The major knife producers have pretty much all adopted decent grades of stainless, so not too much to worry about. Don't expect your SAK to cut through nails, though.

I will leave the discussion of H1 steel to someone else. It's about as rustproof as steel can get, but I don't know about its performance otherwise.


I find that I am happiest with the Sandvik (stainless) steels for overall use and performance. It's good with all kinds of foodstuffs, doesn't stain or influence taste. It gets sharp. It's inclined to stay sharp. And it's easy to restore an edge after a bunch of hard use.

If you asked me to choose between a pair of similar knives, one in an unidentified stainless of unknown origin and one in a carbon steel, and I had to depend on the blade's performance, I would lean in favor of the carbon steel.

The techniques for working and hardening carbon steels are widely known and the technology is not difficult or obscure. Stainless introduces lots of variables, so the processes are more particular to the specific steel. So a random stainless blade along side a random carbon steel blade? I'd likely take the carbon steel.

For me it's an easy decision. Fixed blades are carbon---pocket knifes are stainless. The fixed blades are for serious work while the pocket knifes are for convenience. Every day I use my pocket knife for cutting up food. A carbon blade tends to influence taste whereas my stainless doesn't. With my stainless blades I just wipe them off, throw them back in my pocket and clean them later when it's easier and without oiling them. You can't do that with carbon. I prefer Case, Sypderco, and Benchmade for my pocket knives.

mole

All my carry pocket knives are carbon. Either my Case peanut or sodbuster in CV, or one of my Opinels. I really love Opinels. Like to sand down and re-stain the handles to different shapes and seal with Spar Urathane. I have a stainless Opinel, and it does not hold an edge quite as well as the carbon.

The carbon blades do have a tendency to impart a flavor to food until they get a good deep patina. Then it's okay, I'm not sure why. Maybe the patina has to be deep enough. Like an old charcoal gray butcher knife.

For sheath knives, I have a Buck 102 woodsman, and a Frosts Mora number 1 with a laminated blade. There, it's no contest. The Buck is a decent knife, but can't hold a candle to the laminated blade Swedish knife. The mora is a cutter!

My other choice is damascus. About a month and a half ago, someone gifted me a Case peanut with a damascus blades by Devin Thomas. I don't know what Mr. Thomas makes his blades out of, but it's one of the best cutters I've ever owned. Very grabby edge, that stays there for a long while, and looks good too! I think Case has some other models with Devin Thomas damascus blades.

Carl.

Depends on the stainless, for example I am not much impressed with the stainless from Case but others like VG-10 I like very well.

i prefer carbon for certain knives, and stainless for others. not all carbon steel acts the same way, either; i have a Twistmaster made from CV that is a breeze to put an edge on when it's dull, but my Benchmade Morpho 51 made from D2 is a pain to put an edge on.

most of my EDC knives are stainless, either 440C, 154CM, or S30V.

How your knife cuts and sharpens is due to the steel recipe, and the heat treatment of the steel. Different steel recipes result in different properties to accomplish different tasks. Unfortunately, until recently knife steel was not specifically formulated for knives. So knife makers and factories had to choose what would work best from an array of steels made to do other jobs.
Then, and maybe more important, comes how the selected steel is heat treated, a process that can be used to adjust the particular steel recipes inherent properties to further refine it for the intended task. Heat treatment is some times difficult and considered an art. Proper heat treatment can be very time consuming, yet greatly enhance the steel.
So, you can have 2 knives made from identical steel but with different heat treatment
and the result can be that one has good edge holding while the other does not.
The same goes for high carbon stainless.

Next, one must consider that knives and swords were, in fact, the primary military
weapon for thousands of years. The formulation of steel and before that iron or what ever, were TOP Secret. It was not like nukes or any other current military weapon.
These times are long gone for the blade in the military arena, but, the shroud of secrecy held on for quite some time and remnants can still be seen today. Many a knife company does not tell you what type of steel the blade is made from or how it is prepared.
Or they name a certain type of steel with their own trade name or (remember surgical stainless steel)

Spyderco knife company did a lot to change that, as they have extensively published the specs of the materials they use etc.

You can't blame the companies that don't do as Spyderco, they are in a business with high competition and strive for prominence.

Beyond that, knife factories have always had a problem because knives are used for so many different tasks, and consumers often are bored with the technical aspects.
Lots of people just want to know that the knife cuts good and is easy to sharpen.

I'm always amazed that knife sharpening is a mystery to anyone, as knives are really a necessity of life on earth. Your teeth will only get you so far. That is probably about to change with advanced lasers etc , but still knives need no batteries etc and sharpening is not really as difficult as many think.

Economy is the next consideration for knife factories and consumers. High performance steel is more expensive than the lesser qualities. Just how much performance does the average customer demand?
If you have 10 knives and rotate their use, you will almost never have to sharpen any of them....they will last for a long time. You will be pleased, and never know the difference between excellent and mediocre steel. All of it looks the same. The patina on Carbon steel is actually stain, which will eventually turn to rust but ironically that coating of stain slightly protects the underlying steel like gun bluing.

But if you have only 1 knife and use it extensively....you will soon realize the difference. High performance steel will hold an edge far longer, meaning less down time. Your knife will also last longer, because every time you sharpen your knife you are removing metal. Over time you'll notice you have less and less knife blade.

Finally the basic difference between stainless and non stainless steel, is a bit of chromium, which softens the mixture a bit but protects against rust and stain. Previously there was a trade off in performance. Rust resistance meant less edge holding ability. 440c was a break through allowing good edge holding and rust resistance but lacking resilience. (resistance to breakage)
Stainless steels of lesser quality used in knife blades often have problems with edge holding and sharpening, due to less carbon mixed with chromium which simply makes the mixture too soft no matter what the heat treatment. No breakage problem, but not much cutting from each sharpening

Then came CPMs30V and now it's clones and improvements. A High Performance stainless steel formulated specifically for knives.
Properly prepared, it answers all of the above.....you might read other wise in some places because the raw material is expensive, a bit difficult to work, and the supplies to work it are more costly. Hence you pay more for the knife, but in the long run if your using the knife extensively it's a bargain.

Relentlessknives: Do you own the copyright to that? I thought Mike Stewart of BRKT made them. See this thread http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php?83546-Cpm-3v....... about 4 posts down.

ArfinGreebly: H1 steel is great. It is work-hardened which for some reason results in better edge retention (higher hardness?) with the serrated knives.




I carry a serrated H1 ladybug and a hawkbill serrated H1 ladybug. The hawkbill small serrated knife is AMAZING for cutting small objects, slicing open packages, and most of that "knife stuff" that we use knives for 90% of the time. The other one is more versatile but gives up a little bit of slicing power. It works better for small food prep activities like cutting mold off cheese, cutting an apple up, spreading something on bread, etc.

Conwict: It's based on a generic steel chart, and there are many .
The one in the post is mine and if you check it carefully you'll see that it has 5160, 8670M, 1095 zone tempering and more.

I looked at the one on the post you mentioned, and the ones above it.
Like mine, they are based on charts from Crucible steel and other companies and mostly used to show customers what they can expect from various steels.

Honestly, I don't know which I like better.

Click to expand...

And so starts the addiction. There are no absolutes only applications. Continue to learn, use, and watch your collection grow.

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention how much I like my Mora high carbon knives. But, I also like my S30V and VG10 Spydies. BTW, when I buy a Mora, I put a nice patina on it right out of the package.