Cost to convert Garand to full auto

What Carl N. Brown said. And others. Muzzle rise in FA would make it useless. IIRC, even the FN FAL in .308 Win/NATO 7.62 was so useless in FA that the UK armed forces issued only SA versions.

We've all been taking you seriously. Is this question a joke? Troll's bait? In any case, the answers you've gotten were well informed, serious and a credit to THR, I think anyway.

If you could modify a garand to somehow use a registered sear of some sort, maybe you'd be ok on the books... wouldn't converting a BM59 be marginally more useful with the box mag?

You can not take a legal transferable sear from something else such as a HK or a FNC and put in a differant type of host such as a Grand or a M1a.

The difference is that ARs were offered from the factory in both rifle and SMG configuration. Not so with Macs. Ergo, you can legally convert the AR to rifle calibers but not the Mac. Not my logic, this is ATF logic.

Click to expand...

Care to share where this was stated?

I think a 2 shot burst garand would be quite awesome, personally... No need for full auto on that gun though.

Why not just buy a FA m-14?
after all it's a garand with a box mag in .308 instead of 30.06

TO the original poster. It could cost you a few cents until you get caught and then theres the 10 year stay at club fed extended stay, along with the nice hefty fine. Oh and you loose ya toy. As far as legally making one into a machine gun? I don't really see the point even and the costs would become quiet high quiet fast. I suppose they could be offset by your new business as a firearms manufacture, but it still won't be cheap.

Quote:
The difference is that ARs were offered from the factory in both rifle and SMG configuration. Not so with Macs. Ergo, you can legally convert the AR to rifle calibers but not the Mac. Not my logic, this is ATF logic.

Click to expand...

Care to share where this was stated?

Click to expand...

I care for anyone to share how you would get a rifle caliber to feed in a MAC. It seems the grip would be a bit short for this. I also demand to know where the person that can do this was when I was trying to get that crappy semi auto vulcan hess mac 10 to feed anything.

Before anyone shouts 5.7x28 it would be a little long but it'd be pretty close and I gotta wonder how many of them little boogers would fit in a mag the length of a 30 round .45acp mac 10 mag. I'd almost be tempted to buy something like that if price was right and 5.7x28 was more affordable. I can definitely see it being more controllable in rapid fire. Heck with a stock and a rifle length barrel you'd have a nifty new carbine. A man has gotta dream of something right?

MtnCreek said:

Assuming it is possible to make a FA Garand, it can be legally done. All you need is a type 07 FFL, SOT 2 tax stamp, ITAR registration and a demo letter from a Gov agency. Simple!

Click to expand...

07's do not need demo letters to make machineguns.

The idea isn't to use the magazine well on the Mac, but to use the Mac lower as a registered fullauto trigger mechanism, just like a beltfed upper on an AR.



I don't have paper from ATF in front of me - my understanding of the legal issues in this area comes from reading discussions with reasonably knowledgeable folks.

Quote:
The difference is that ARs were offered from the factory in both rifle and SMG configuration. Not so with Macs. Ergo, you can legally convert the AR to rifle calibers but not the Mac. Not my logic, this is ATF logic.
Care to share where this was stated?

Click to expand...

There have been a couple of uppers for MACS that never got ATF approval IIRC. The MAC section on Uzitalk.com had some really good info on this, but I haven't looked in a while.

I think a 2 shot burst garand would be quite awesome, personally... No need for full auto on that gun though.

Click to expand...

I recall an M1A trigger group that was set a little too fine and would double pretty regularly. That was thought to be a lot of fun. It was passed around and tried in several guns until somebody realized it was illegal and got it fixed.

The M-14 I shot could let loose two or three round bursts depending on how good you were with the trigger, but unless the target was really close the second and third bullet would be over the target. That gun was much fun though!

Is there a point to this or is it just ...........

Is there a point to this or is it just ...........

Click to expand...

Of course not. Did you really expect new and revolutionary comments after the question was answered in the first 5 posts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnCreek
Assuming it is possible to make a FA Garand, it can be legally done. All you need is a type 07 FFL, SOT 2 tax stamp, ITAR registration and a demo letter from a Gov agency. Simple!
07/2 doesn't require a demo letter to make a machinegun.

Click to expand...

My Bad. You’re correct.

There have been a couple of uppers for MACS that never got ATF approval IIRC. The MAC section on Uzitalk.com had some really good info on this, but I haven't looked in a while.

Click to expand...

There is a company down where I used to live, called "BRP Guns" that USED to specialize in adapter/conversion kits for registered M-16 lowers that would mate them to MG-34s and -42s. I watched the owner test-fire one at my old club once and spent a while talking to him about it. Seems they were popular with some of the reenacting set as, so long as the rear/bottom of the gun wasn't visible to the viewer, they appeared to be quite correct and worked very well.

But they don't list that product or service any more -- don't even mention it on their website -- and I had heard (yes, just through the grapevine) that was because the ATF decided such conversions went too far afield of the original design and became a "new" machine gun. Thus illegal.

Now they only specialize in Stemple kit guns which are swappable into different configurations of submachine guns. Different calibers, different donor parts kits, etc -- but not major transformations from sub-gun into crew-served belt-fed.

Actually, here's an article (http://www.brpguns.com/content/StempleSuomi.pdf) reprinted from Shotgun News on BRP Guns and how they make their Stemple 76/45 conversion guns work with other famous submachine gun parts kits.

There are clues in the article about what the ATF has to say about the issue.

Sounds like a job for Red Jacket.

Sorry. Couldn't believe someone hadn't already took that shot.

Legality? What legality?
The army experimented, and saw that it was a very bad idea.

"adapter/conversion kits for registered M-16 lowers that would mate them to MG-34s and -42s."

That I would like to see, as the M16 doesn't work anything like the German guns. Sure he didn't just put a fake barrel jacket on an AR15?

Jim

Agreed! I don't know exactly how they got that to work, and as I said, they've stopped making them and are now just selling off the parts kits. You could always drop them an email and ask. Not sure they'd exactly tell you how to do it, though.