Looking for .22 Mauser info

FenderTK421 · Sep 9, 2011

I am curious about the .22 caliber Mausers that were used as sport guns and military trainers in Germany in the first half of the 20th century. I have searched the web and found some info, but not much. For example, I know there was a model called the DSM 34. There is a fair bit of info on this model. Used by clubs and boy scout type groups as well as a training role in the Wehrmacht. I can't find much info on some of the other models such as the KKW, which seems to be a later WW2 era trainer and then even later re-produced by Norinco. It seems there are also Israeli versions. Any armchair experts out there that could either guide me to a complete/comprehensive site or even give me the rundown on what models were produced and when? Thanks for the help!

waidmann · Sep 17, 2011

You might try the German Gun Collectors Association.

FenderTK421 · Oct 5, 2011

Thanks for the lead, will check them out!

Shadow 7D · Oct 5, 2011

Rimfirecentral also has a military and a number of specialty boards that it might fall under

A number of rifles by a number of makers kinda fall under the title
of 'German sport model' (in German of course) DSM 34
basically a .22 trainer for the K98, since of course they couldn't make the real thing.

but once they got rid of the Versailles Treaty, they would make the KKW trainer, which was basically the same rifle, except built for the Wehrmacht instead of the 'sporting' clubs.

Jim K · Oct 6, 2011

Most of those rifles were made for the "Wehrsport" program, not for the Wehrmacht. The Wehrmacht trained with the standard K.98k, not with .22's, though there were shooting teams in the armed forces (as in the U.S. armed forces). Wehrsport (defense sport) refers to sports that have a potential military application, like skiing, mountain climbing, hiking, motorcycle racing, rifle shooting, and the like. The term is still used in Switzerland and, I think, in Austria.

Jim

22-rimfire · Oct 6, 2011

I'm pretty sure that the German army did not use 22 trainers like the US did during or prior to WWII. The best place to find stuff about German "trainers" is at rimfirecentral which has a special forum for military trainers. You will find the "experts" there, but I feel sure some wander over here.

One of the more favored trainers was the MAS 45 or MAS 45A. Production was started in Germany near the end of the war and moved to France. France took control of the area that had the Mauser factory that reportedly did not suffer bomb damage.

Jim K · Oct 6, 2011

The U.S. never used .22 training rifles, either, though they fooled around with .22 conversions of both the Krag and the Springfield for use on indoor ranges in the winter by the National Guard and Reserves. Sometimes training was carried out with odd rifles (like the American-made Mosin-Nagants used during WWI), but .22s make poor trainers since they don't have the feel or the recoil of full power military rifles.

While rifles like the Remington 513T and Mossberg 44 are often called "training rifles," the main use of those and other .22 rifles bought by the military was for unit rifle teams, not training.

Jim

Shadow 7D · Oct 6, 2011

Look up the M1922??
I do believe that those were .22 versions of the 1903

clamman · Oct 7, 2011

I'm not an expert, but I do have a KKW that is believed to be manufactured between 1932-37. It was made in a jewish factory that was taken over by the nazis so I have been told.

Jim K · Oct 7, 2011

Hi, Shadow7D,

The "Springfield" I referred to was the M1903. I did err in using the word "conversion", as the M1922, M1 and M2 .22's were made as such, not "converted" from .30 rifles. There were also .22's made to use auxiliary cartridges, like the Hoffer-Thompson, which used .22 Short. The auxiliary cartridge allowed the rifle to be loaded with clips, then fired from the magazine, lending more realism to the exercise than firing, say, an M1922.

But all those were designated "gallery practice" rifles and were not intended or used for general training. Recruit training, in the U.S. (and AFAIK, in Germany) was always carried out with the standard service rifle, with some exceptions in the U.S., like the use of the M-N when M1903's were scarce.

Jim

Looking for .22 Mauser info

FenderTK421

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waidmann

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Shadow 7D

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Jim K

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22-rimfire

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Shadow 7D

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clamman

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