Skerpskiet
Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2
Hello I am a newbie to this forum, but not to guns and reloading.
Since discovering on the internet that my C-96 should not be fed Tokarev 7.62X25 I have been researching both suitable commercial ammo and hand-loads for this gun. In addition I was trying to confirm the gun would be legal with a reproduction stock.
In three days of searching and consulting my own books I have found the following:
- All searches eventually lead me to Carl N Brown posts, poster on this forum, whose posts always answered my concerns, succinctly, in full, and with all the back-up needed to put me in my comfort zone. Bravo Carl and The High Road forum!
- That the Tokarev 7.62 loads were always slightly hotter than the 7.63, have been made in many loadings, culminating in the very hot Czech round known as the M48
- That the original pressure rating of the C-96 is probably OK for the earlier Russian WWII 7.62 Tokarev rounds, and even possibly the Norinco rounds which I have been using, although not in great quantities, for the last 20 years. But not for the later hot Czech rounds. I have the velocities and weights of many of the rounds involved, but am just here publishing my conclusions.
- However, setting chamber pressure aside, the slide return velocity on these guns, with anything hotter than the original Mauser 7.63, is likely to sooner or later cause the slide to batter the slide stop, possibly resulting in slide stop failure and serious injury or death. Particularly as the recoil is absorbed mainly by the hammer spring on a C-96, and this, together with the feeble recoil spring, as well as the slide stop itself, may well be weak on a gun 80 years old or more. THIS SEEMS TO BE THE REAL DANGER
- That my two 50 round boxes of Interarms ammo labelled "7.62X25 (.30Mauser)" and which say on the label "suitable for the Mauser 1896 7.63 pistol" are actually old (very old) Russian Tula Tokarev ammunition repackaged.
- So I have bought reloading dies for the C-96
Here is my question (finally)
Maybe Interarms weren't wrong when they repackaged those rounds in saying they were suitable for the Mauser. Original specs for the 7.62 Soviet TT Model 33 pistol was 1378 fps, and the various sub-machine guns using the same round 1640 fps (could this difference be due to barrel length alone?), and specs for the Mauser 7.63 Model 1932 (fully Auto) were 1575 fps (all foregoing as per Small Arms Of The World-Tenth Edition). Another Mauser figure more commonly quoted is 1453 fps (Famous Pistols and Handguns).
With my new dies, I was planning to pull the bullets on the cartridges in the Interarm boxes, and replace them over a lighter load. I just bought dies and did that on a box of .45 ACP bullets for my converted to .45 ACP .455 Webley revolver, but that was a no-brainer when one compared the pressures involved. But as these Interarm 7.62 are probably earlier Russian supply, would it be practical to just use them as is? The headstamps on the Interarm rounds are; triangle 539 triangle 48.
Any comments would be appreciated. I really enjoy my C-96, I had coveted one ever since my childhood in South Africa, where Mausers were iconic, both the 7mm rifle and the Broom-handle, as the weapons which my forefathers used to keep the entire British Empire at bay for 3 years.
Skerpskiet
Since discovering on the internet that my C-96 should not be fed Tokarev 7.62X25 I have been researching both suitable commercial ammo and hand-loads for this gun. In addition I was trying to confirm the gun would be legal with a reproduction stock.
In three days of searching and consulting my own books I have found the following:
- All searches eventually lead me to Carl N Brown posts, poster on this forum, whose posts always answered my concerns, succinctly, in full, and with all the back-up needed to put me in my comfort zone. Bravo Carl and The High Road forum!
- That the Tokarev 7.62 loads were always slightly hotter than the 7.63, have been made in many loadings, culminating in the very hot Czech round known as the M48
- That the original pressure rating of the C-96 is probably OK for the earlier Russian WWII 7.62 Tokarev rounds, and even possibly the Norinco rounds which I have been using, although not in great quantities, for the last 20 years. But not for the later hot Czech rounds. I have the velocities and weights of many of the rounds involved, but am just here publishing my conclusions.
- However, setting chamber pressure aside, the slide return velocity on these guns, with anything hotter than the original Mauser 7.63, is likely to sooner or later cause the slide to batter the slide stop, possibly resulting in slide stop failure and serious injury or death. Particularly as the recoil is absorbed mainly by the hammer spring on a C-96, and this, together with the feeble recoil spring, as well as the slide stop itself, may well be weak on a gun 80 years old or more. THIS SEEMS TO BE THE REAL DANGER
- That my two 50 round boxes of Interarms ammo labelled "7.62X25 (.30Mauser)" and which say on the label "suitable for the Mauser 1896 7.63 pistol" are actually old (very old) Russian Tula Tokarev ammunition repackaged.
- So I have bought reloading dies for the C-96
Here is my question (finally)
Maybe Interarms weren't wrong when they repackaged those rounds in saying they were suitable for the Mauser. Original specs for the 7.62 Soviet TT Model 33 pistol was 1378 fps, and the various sub-machine guns using the same round 1640 fps (could this difference be due to barrel length alone?), and specs for the Mauser 7.63 Model 1932 (fully Auto) were 1575 fps (all foregoing as per Small Arms Of The World-Tenth Edition). Another Mauser figure more commonly quoted is 1453 fps (Famous Pistols and Handguns).
With my new dies, I was planning to pull the bullets on the cartridges in the Interarm boxes, and replace them over a lighter load. I just bought dies and did that on a box of .45 ACP bullets for my converted to .45 ACP .455 Webley revolver, but that was a no-brainer when one compared the pressures involved. But as these Interarm 7.62 are probably earlier Russian supply, would it be practical to just use them as is? The headstamps on the Interarm rounds are; triangle 539 triangle 48.
Any comments would be appreciated. I really enjoy my C-96, I had coveted one ever since my childhood in South Africa, where Mausers were iconic, both the 7mm rifle and the Broom-handle, as the weapons which my forefathers used to keep the entire British Empire at bay for 3 years.
Skerpskiet