Not real impressed with RCBS Pro 2000 Quality Assurance fresh out the box

"Really You were the LNL AP Guru here, what the heck happened to make you sell your LNL AP in favor of a RCBS 2000 which is clearly an inferior press. Dave are you OK????"

After a decade, with a bunch of mods to keep it upgraded and Hornady's hot/cold warranty service, I just got tired of it.

The 2000 isn't an inferior press, just a different one. After spending a bunch of time with the Dillons, the Hornady and now the RCBS, they're all about the same. They all reload good ammo and can deliver reasonable reliability. They all have pluses and minuses and flaws. One has to decide which level of convenience and customer support one wants. Once that's decided, pick the press one wants.

That's not saying I won't own another LnL one day. I miss the bushing feature a lot. On the other hand, I like the simplicity of the 2000's auto advance adjustments. Set it once and pretty much forget it. Soon, I'll do a comparison review.

"Are you talking about die bushings? Isn't that functionality replaced as well or better with die plates?"

Nope, not as well and definitely not better. Takes more die plates to do the same thing and they cost more and in the end, not as versatile.

No,

It doesn't really depend at all. Here's an example:

To set up trimming rifle brass in one pass, then reloading the same brass in a second pass and have every single die mounted and powder measure mounted and ready for quick change, no screwing in of dies or powder measures (I like my stuff set up precisely and once set, I hate changing it and I hate screwing dies in and out.):

Pro 2000 Trim Setup: RCBS lube die, Dillon Trim Die w/Trimmer, FL Sizer - 1 die plate needed.

Pro 2000 Seating setup: Case Activated Powder Drop die, Powder Measure, Seater die - 1 die plate needed

RCBS 2000 Third pass of brass setup (This is after you've fired the cartridges you mae in the Seating setup): RCBS X-die, Case Activated Powder Drop die, Powder Measure, Seater Die - 1 die plate, second Case Activated Powder Drop die, second powder measure, second Seater Die

Total die plates needed: 3

Extra dies/powder measures needed: 1 Case Activated Powder Die, 1 powder measure and 1 Seater die.

Hornady LnL Trim Setup: RCBS lube die, Dillon Trim Die w/Trimmer, FL Sizer - 3 LnL bushings needed

Hornady LnL Seating setup: Case activated powder drop die, Seater die - 2 LnL bushings needed

Hornady LnL Second pass of brass setup: RCBS X-die, Case Activated Powder Drop die, Powder Measure, Seater Die - 1 LnL bushing needed for RCBS X-die - For other needed items, previously mounted Case Activated Powder Drop die, Powder Measure and Seater Die can be used

Total LnL bushings needed: 6

Extra dies/powder measures needed: none

The ability of the LnL bushings to be changed out individually is a great money saver.

In using your cost comparison numbers:

For the LnL setup I bought a ten pack of the LnL bushings for $43.00. I still have four left to setup for .45ACP reloading (1 sizer/2 powder through expander&Powder measure/3 seater/4 crimp). So I've now setup for two caliber reloading with the first ten pack.

For the Pro 2000 I bought 3 die plates for $60.27. So the LnL is at this point less expensive than the Pro 2000 and I still haven't started buying die plates for the .45ACP setup or the extra stuff I have to buy for convenience of not screwing dies into a die plate to have versatility.

So add a second scenario: Suppose I want to have the capability on the .45ACP setup to seat both store bought hollow points and my own cast bullets without adjusting any dies or screwing them in and out. (and I do want this) For the LnL, I have to buy an extra seating die and a single LnL bushing. For the Pro 2000, I have to buy an extra die set and a die plate.

This is the area where the LnL really shines the brightest, versatility and cost of various setup changeovers. Because you can quickly change each die station, you can easily swap in a single die to change a setup for a different bullet/brass, etc.

But costs of changeover isn't the whole story. I meant to do this in my review. I'll not answer more comparison questions in this thread.

As a matter of fact, the issues raised in this thread are resolved, so I'll hold off until I get done setting up my new reloading room to write any more on the Pro 2000. I will have some positive things to say as well, I promise.

StaTiK,

Answers in red below.

"Dave I'm not really understanding you. How do you have 3 tool heads for 2 passes through the press?"

My apologies I wasn't perfectly clear. It's actually three passes through the press with the third being after you've fired the cartridges you've made. I've edited my original post so that's more clear.

"And what's with the Dillon trimmer and the X-die?"

Brass has to be trimmed at some point and the Dillon trimmer makes that miserable process faster. But after that, if you shoot a lot of rifle (I have and do.), you're going to want to figure out a way not to trim the brass repeatedly. That's where the X-die comes in. If you don't know about X-dies and you want to reload lots of rifle, I suggest doing the research on that die.

"And then a powder measure on two different toolheads."

I think you're focusing on the "toolhead/die plate" without realizing what a LnL bushing provides for you. The point I'm making here is with the LnL bushing setup, you can put a single powder measure quickly any where you want to in your reloading process without having to buy extra anything. Of course, the single powder measure has to be adjusted.

The convenience side to the argument is multiple powder measures/case activated powder drops "pre-set" allow for the ultimate in speed and convenience, but at extra cost and that extra cost is a good bit more with the toolhead/dieplate than with the LnL bushing. You can add extra "pre-set" case activated powder drop setups with a LnL bushing press by buying a single LnL bushing that is much cheaper than a complete toolhead and the only extra stuff you buy is the extra powder measure/case activated powder drop, no dies, etc., since they're on separate LnL bushings and can be switched out individually.

Of course, you could just buy extra case activated powder drop die bases and move your powder measure around to reduce/offset this cost somewhat, but again, you can do this cheaper buying LnL bushings than buying toolhead/die plates.

"Regarding the LNL bushings vs toolheads, it seems to me that there isn't much difference unless 1) you have multiple loads for the same caliber (i.e. an AR-platform 308 and a 308 bolt action)"

There's a pretty huge difference. The bushings provide for a better rifle cartridge, are much more versatile and are just as fast or faster than changing a toolhead/die plate. And I do have multiple loads for several calibers and several rifles not to mention loading cast vs. loading jackets bullets. Why would one want to limit oneself in any way?

"or 2) you want to frequently trade out powder checks and bullet feeders."

If you load multiple calibers, you're going to do this. And it may be bullet feed dies, it may be powder checks, it may be changing a neck sizing die for a FL sizing die in a rifle setup. The point is the LnL bushings don't limit you in this respect. Toolheads/die plates do.

"I think a Pro 2000 with the powder measure on station #3 and using the expanders in station #2 is much less hassle than changing adjustments on the LNL PTX. Just my humble opinion as I've never used a Pro 2000."

Sounds like you haven't used a PTX either. PTX stands for powder through expander and is meant to be used with the powder measure. Specifically, underneath it.

You could separate the expander/powder delivery functions using say, a Lyman M-die, but in doing so, you use two die locations/stations on the press instead of one. When you do this, you lose the ability to use powder check die and bullet feeder dies since you're taking up an extra station on the press for the expander function. Of course, if you're loading pistol, you could combine the seating and crimp functions and free that station back up. But if you really want to fine tune your crimping and seating, you don't want to combine those stations. For me, I use a lot of cast bullets and accuracy is important to me and I prefer to keep seating and crimping separate, so I can fine tune those operations to the cartridge I'm building.

Finally, as far as hassle, adjusting a case activated powder drop with a powder measure is pretty quick and simple, whether you're loading rifle or pistol, so leaving it fixed in station three wouldn't be bad, except for one small problem. You've taken up that fixed station and can't use a powder check or bullet feeder die.

Since I want to use a powder check and a bullet feeder die, that case activated powder drop with powder measure on top has to move back a station, putting the powder measure/case activated powder drop onto the toolhead/die plate. And that fixed station requires screwing in a die, so I'm back to having to screw in a die in that station when I want to change it's function, because RCBS made it fixed and it can't be drilled and tapped to accept a LnL bushing adapter, (There's not enough material left on the side where the die plate goes to do that.) so I'm stuck with screwing dies in an out like I had a single stage. Inconvenient to me vs. having a quick change LnL bushing there.

"The two presses are apples and oranges....two reloaders like me and you are also like apples and oranges. The presses have their own "features" that fit one reloader better than another."

I think I said most of this already.

"Your points serve to show why the Hornady fit you.....my big question is why you sold it? You said you got tired of it......why? Because it fit you so well?"

Why does one sell a rifle that's given them great service for years years sometimes? I stated clearly I was tired of it and wanted to try something new. That's simple enough. Your statement is coming across as condescending. Perhaps you're emotionally attached to the press you have. It happens. I remember myself ragging Master Blaster pretty badly on his purchase of a LnL back when for the same reasons.

"My needs are different. Using your first scenario. I don't use the progressive to size and deprime rifle. I prefer to do that in my Rockchucker....nor do I or will I use a lube die. Don't misunderstand, I think they are great, I just don't want to bother with another thing to watch (lube levels, thats an old fart thing...simpler is better) So for me there is always only one pass through the progressive. Deprime and size on the Rock Chucker, Trim & prep the brass on my Modified/Motorize Forster and Trim Mate."

My example is one of many possible setups. The purpose of the example wasn't to illustrate the setup, it was to illustrate the speed, versatility and affordability of the LnL bushings for multiple setups with minimal costs. When one initially buys a press, one doesn't know what one may encounter or how one may choose to reload. In this instance, the versatility is more desireable.

"Technically. if I get tired of screwing in my sizers on the Rock Chucker, I could buy LnL bushings and the LnL conversion bushing for the Rock Chucker. So far, I haven't minded the 10 second hit in wasted time. Again, that's Me."

I'd rather spend the time doing something else. You're also doing a new reloader a disfavor in the fact it isn't just ten seconds. And even ten seconds adds up over multiple dies. That's why one buys a progressive in the first place.

"What's important to me is having a die head set up and always ready. Maybe I'm more disorganized than you. I'd rather organize and store a few sets of dies, than try to organize that times five. That's why, when I was choosing a press, the final decision was between the Dillon 650 and the RCBS Pro 2000. (Hornady just wasn't my cup of tea) And if I had chosen the Dillon, btw, I would have wanted to buy a powder measure for each tool head. That's me....I'm in to quick changeover time because I nearly always reload more than on caliber a night. To do that with a Dillon, I'd spend more and still spend more time than I want changing calibers. The Dillon's more complicated. Just compare one little thing like changing primer size (APS is the other reason Dillon didn't finish)...and that's just the beginning.....there is the time involved for case feeder changeover. Again, great press, just not a good fit for what I do."

Okay, I answered someone's question about the LnL bushings vs. the die plate and we're getting into a sell this press vs. that press debate. I said I'd review the presses in a separate posting and I intend to do that. At this point, I haven't reloaded enough on this press to fully compare the two. So I'm not going to get caught up in this debate.

"Now scenario 2. First, I only load FMJ 230 gr. or Speer Gold Dots for my .45....period. I don't have to change anything. But if I did shoot lead, homemade or commercial, I'd rather buy another die set and die head. For me a $100 one time expense for a load I shoot a lot of, would be worth the convenience of having it ready to go as a set. BTW I shoot and reload jacketed .357, .40 as well. I don't plan to try a lot of different bullets in them either."

On the other hand, lots of folks who own lots of guns in lots of different calibers and who DO use lead bullets and who want/need versatility just might not want to spend not a hundred bucks, but hundreds of bucks just might be interested in knowing that BEFORE they buy this press vs. that press.

"For something I don't shoot much of...like maybe a try out of something new, I would unscrew the seater and screw in the new one. It's not like I'm losing anything, the old seater is still set-screwed, and as often as I do those types of operations, for me, LnL bushing is not that big a deal."

You know, if you haven't used them, I suppose you just can't see they're just as fast and faster than a toolhead/die plate. I've owned all three setups and I'm telling you, the speed and versatility is there.

"I stand by....Depends.... We may be brothers, but we're different."

Yeah, my brother was always a pain in the neck.

Striker Fired,

"I also deprime and resize all my rifle on the Rockchucker,but I have been doing pistols in the LNL and priming by hand,then swap dies to load,this setup is cheaper on the LNL than a die plate setup.I could see that if a person had a couple loads that were used all the time ,a die plate setup would be a better setup as long as those dies are not needed for another operation."

I agree totally with these statements. Did you know there's a calibration procedure to create a "washer" for matching up/calibrating a single stage setup to a Hornady LnL progressive? I think you can google the information. If you can't find it, post back and I'll see if I can find it again.

"Maybe a die plate with one hole setup with the bushing so when a person changes bullets,you can just quickly swap seater dies and your ready to roll."

I've been thinking about modifying a die plate to accept a LnL bushing. I'm just not sure there's enough material there to drill the larger hole for the larger die size. After taking a closer look just now, I don't think there is.

Thank you for the information Sta Tik. Yes, it was on the Ultimate Reloader website. Lots of ways to accomplish the raising/lowering of the die to "calibrate" the two presses, but the procedure of how to come up with the measurement is probably the most important thing.

Striker Fired,

Sounds good to me. I had done it years ago when I got my Lee Classic Cast single stage, but forgotten how I came up with the measurement. Once you get the difference, making the shim is the easy part, especially if you're a machinist or gunsmith.

Dave

"Dave it sounds like you really miss your LNL"

No, I just miss the CAPD, the powder measure and the LnL bushings. I don't miss the case feeder on my older press that wasn't machined to accept a case feeder. I'll probably buy another CAPD and may sell a Uniflow (I own two) and get a Hornady powder measure to increase the powder capacity for reloading rifle, even though the Uniflows are good measures.

"why exactly did you sell it?"

I done said why. Go back and read a little closer.

"What was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak?"

Wasn't one

Was it an indexing issue?

Nope, never had any. Once I adjusted the indexing palls and loctited them, never had a problem until I moved and took the press. Then I adjusted them again, loctited them again and they were good to go. Kept them greased and they never wore down enough to replace in all those years.

"a primer seating issue"

Never had one once the primer system was upgraded to the aluminum stuff. Polished the parts up, adjusted them, loctite where needed and again, service for years. Cleaned occasionally

"or was it a powder throw problem??"

Again, never had one. Cleaned the powder measure thoroughly when new, adjusted it properly, came to understand what powders fed well in it and used them. If I wanted to use a known problematic powder for a cylinder measure, I just substituted a slide bar type powder measure, the Lee Pro Auto Disk. Worked great for not a lot of money. Those things are a great value, especially for reloading small pistol cartridges.

"Why didn't you send it in to Hornady for repair??"

Wasn't broken, wasn't wore out and I wasn't mad with it.

You ain't busting my chops for revenge, are you?