Staten Island FD Uses Deluge Gun To Rescue Police From Mob

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Fred Fuller

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http://www.silive.com/northshore/index.ssf/2011/12/9_arrests_in_staten_island_inc.html
9 arrests in wild Staten Island incident, as unruly crowd overruns cops, police say
Published: Tuesday, December 06, 2011, 5:48 PM Updated: Wednesday, December 07, 2011, 2:01 PM
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The crowd gathered in the aftermath of some sort of personal dispute involving a neighborhood resident, and one neighbor estimated the size of the mob at 50 to 55 people. When two local LEOs showed up and one of them tried to arrest a member of the crowd, the teenagers turned on him, knocking him to the ground. When the other LEO attempted to assist, she too was knocked down. Calls for assistance were first answered by a firetruck from a nearby station, which used its deluge gun (same thing as a water cannon when used for riot control) to disperse the mob. Nine members of the crowd were arrested after that.

Note: This is NOT posted to provoke a round of chest thumping, kill-em-all-let-god-sort-'em-out firebreathing. It sounds like some kind of really over the top incident (and it was), like something no one would expect to happen (but it did), like something no one would get caught up in. But there's the news story, with pictures.

So... let's say you're the parents of the teen that this crowd had gathered to 'visit.' Or a visitor in the house, a friend of the family. How would you handle being there?
 
How would you handle being there?
Click to expand...

Get on the phone with 911 and stay there. give good descriptions, counts, plate #s, repeat heard threats. Have the girl give names of those she recognises. Have some one else make a video if possible.

Do not engage the crowd in discusion.

DO not leave the house. Hardened the access points.

Keep everybody calm.

Be of the mind set that if the threshhold is breached you will act.
 
Teens and crowds not the ideal mix.

When we go to the big city of Winston-Salem (which is seldom) Haines Mall in particular the time of day is a relevant factor. Haines Mall was having a problem with the influx of minority youth to be brutally honest.

The situation was becoming problematic and more important then that to Haines Mall/business venues were noticing a reduction in sales. The all important decline in sales changed the policy of entrance into Haines Mall which instituted a chaperone policy for teens.

Where I live a crowd of fifty-plus individual’s of a certain age group is simply a nonoccurrence except at school or school sponsored events. If such an event was to occur I’ll simply practice avoidance if possible and if required as a last resort self-protection.

The probability of such an event occurring is very low on the other hand I’d be more likely to come a cross illicit crops and processing of alcohol which has its own set of unique problems.
 
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Avoiding, if necessary, fleeing if you must.... crowds that aren't peaceful are bad news.
Some years ago I was the junior sergeant on the road late at night. Through default I became the junior sergeant in charge of the riot... Thank heavens a seasoned officer whispered to me - have your guys make the arrest and let's get the hell out of here... That was very good advice and it stuck with me. Afterwards I made a point in telling my officers that there were times when an arrest in a crowd situation might not be the best idea they ever had... A little discretion at times is a very good idea. Unless the crowd is actively trying to kill someone, back off - get help, and wait to act if possible.

For any citizen, the first sentence is all you need to read...
 
If i were in the house of the girl being threatened the steps would of course be to first place family in most secure room of house (no windows ideally), arm self in case of attempted invasion, call police and wait.

I don't mean to be a smart alec but if any attempt to force entry was made by the mob it may be one of the few times when a little chest thumping is in order. Not to be macho but because said mob is operating in a sort of animal pack mentatility in which signs of weaknesses are likely to be expoited by them and they will be probing to see just how much they can get away with. Stepping out onto the porch to confront the gathering mob to call their bluff could possibly deter them but on the other hand just one of them acting could set them all off so the best bet would be to hold up until help arrived.
 
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I'm just glad to learn the FD came to the PD's rescue. With questions of jurisdiction, political correctness & legal ramifications ruling SO MANY public decisions it's refreshing that someone in the chain-of-command had the stones, took the risk & made the call to solve a problem. A nice cold shower never (seriously) hurt anyone. But I'm sure the "victims" are already lawyering-up.
 
Seems that water cannon will do the job.

Maybe the police should look into it.
 
Too many problems, aclu and such get pissy
FD rescuing a cop, well, who can say
"O Lordy my rights were violated by storm troopers"
naw, it's the FD pulling the cops bacon out of the fire
feel sorry for the cops, maybe some RICO charges if they can prove the 'crowd' was organized.
 
How would I handle being there? By not "taking the law into my own hands" I would stand idly by and let the two authorities handle it.
 
Since the cops had already been called all you could really do is stay inside and have your method of self defense ready.
 
There's one other time when firemen routinely rescue cops... and it's something that almost every police supervisor tries to avoid - but cops will be cops (particularly the young and aggressive ones...). Not uncommon for cops to be first on the scene in fire incidents and no matter how many times you tell them not to.... they'll go dashing into burning structures looking for people to save - without the slightest bit of breathing apparatus. As a result the firemen end up rescuing the cops (or at least it seemed that way to me on more than one occasion....). Modern buildings are just plain gas chambers in a fire ( a blood scan back at the ER commonly shows every blood gas from cyanide on down on anyone that's been breathing the smoke those buildings generate). A few whiffs and you just want to lay down quietly - and that's where you'll be when they find you (hopefully in time...).

Yes they're "hero cops" but going into a burning building without a Scott pack or other breathing apparatus is tough to encourage... I never lost a man that way but we did send our share to the local ER's over the years and some of them were in pretty bad shape... Thank heavens for the firemen.
 
oh yes - watercannons are very effective.
Here´s the latest in democratic-demonstration control:

800px-Wawe-10000-halbe-dusche.jpg


( ... it´s used on my doorstep twice a year - to disperse citizens with an opinion :-( )
 
What do you want to bet that the whole thing could have been avoided if the cops had exercised some discretion and waited for backup before attempting an arrest? But someone decided to wade in and stir up a bunch of probably drunk teenagers.

50 against 2 is not good odds. And given the way some cops treat other human beings, especially teenagers, it is almost understandable that now and then they will get some kickback. I do not think there is a good answer for some of these kind of problems that are mostly about bad parenting.
 
1. Put on chest rig (already loaded with 5 magazines).
2. Grab rifle.
3. Get camera rolling.
4. Call police and let them deal with it. Do not leave the house. If anyone attempts to enter house, shoot them.
 
Not the original question, but this was common in the riots of the late 60s. Usually it was fire hoses because you can go longer without committing to a fire hydrant and not being mobile. fewer gallons per minute. The deck gun is usually 1000 gpm. I didn't ever have to use that skill on my department, but my dad had a lot of stories of it in 67-69. They had shotguns mounted in the right seat too.
We don't always get along (police and fire), but they save us as much as we save them.
 
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