Gun Collector Arrested on Staten Island

[Seminole]

Bowens was issued his FFL as a "Collector of Curios and Relics" (C&R license) in March 2007. This license entitled him to only collect specific firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons.

That has got to be the most convoluted and bizarre description of a C&R anywhere.

 

[gym]

Same thing, the 5 bououghs license is a NYC carry, I had one for 25 years, then there is the nassau county and suffok, they can't carry in NY proper, only in nasau and suffok, then there is a carry for north of NY city, upstate rockland and up, same deal, but with A NYC carry, you cand carry anywhere in the state.

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

Quote:
Bowens was issued his FFL as a "Collector of Curios and Relics" (C&R license) in March 2007. This license entitled him to only collect specific firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons.
That has got to be the most convoluted and bizarre description of a C&R anywhere.

Agreed. Sounds like it was written by an 8 year old. ATF just describes them as 'firearms unlikely to be used in crimes' or some such.

 

[novaDAK]

He originally attempted to purchase a handgun from an individual in Florida, and when that person realized Bowens did not have the proper license, he notified ATF.

I guess this was easier than explaining to the guy his C&R isn't good for those guns assuming he only recently got his C&R. :banghead:

Though even if he was in fact ignorant of the law, you'd think he'd maybe research the issue if no one would sell to him because he didn't have the right license...

 

[garymc]

The information I got from BATFE with my C&R gives a very similar definition or description to the one in the article. They did neglect to mention that additionally anything manufactured over 50 years ago would qualify. I think the actual definition is a bit on the convoluted side, or at least open to interpretation. You have the list published by BATFE, the 50 years, guns that people have specifically asked about and gotten responses, and for the aggressive C&R collector, this: You bid on a 2004 manufactured S&W 357 revolver (normally worth $400 -500 used) that was used to commit some heinous crime or was used by Jack Bauer in 24 (OK, he didn't use a revolver) and it costs $10,000. That is a C&R because of its collectability.
It looks like the guy was an idiot. And since he had several failed purchase attempts and one where he backed out, it looks like he had criminal intent. But the way he did it was like writing a check to a store and not having the name of a bank on the check. You got the store's money under false pretenses, but what idiot would cash such a check?

 

[KD5NRH]

Agreed. Sounds like it was written by an 8 year old. ATF just describes them as 'firearms unlikely to be used in crimes' or some such.

Well, I don't see my modern firearms as any more likely to be used in crimes than my C&Rs unless they're stolen, so maybe ATF should simply suspend all the licensing requirements except for thieves.

 

[KD5NRH]

You have the list published by BATFE, the 50 years, guns that people have specifically asked about and gotten responses, and for the aggressive C&R collector, this: You bid on a 2004 manufactured S&W 357 revolver (normally worth $400 -500 used) that was used to commit some heinous crime or was used by Jack Bauer in 24 (OK, he didn't use a revolver) and it costs $10,000. That is a C&R because of its collectability.

Has anybody ever gotten an actual BATFE ruling on something like this? I'm curious as to how long they take to issue the ruling in somewhat unique situations.

 

[Louisiana Carry]

MDeViney definitely gets the award for best use of mall ninja ammo covers.

 

[buttrap]

I think the title of the story should be "Idiot gets busted doing a Gump".

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

Well, I don't see my modern firearms as any more likely to be used in crimes than my C&Rs unless they're stolen, so maybe ATF should simply suspend all the licensing requirements except for thieves.

Uh not what I meant. A crook is not going to care how old a gun is, he just wants it to work. Chances are he is not going to find anything older than maybe the 1970s, unless something is stolen from a collector.

Thats their thinking. Although ATF did have some thing they called 'time to crime' implying all guns are used in crimes at some point.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I guess this was easier than explaining to the guy his C&R isn't good for those guns assuming he only recently got his C&R.

There is no excuse for not knowing what you can and can't do with your C&R. ATF sends books with very detailed information on exactly which firearms you may acquire with your FFL 03. Ignorance won't get you off the hook, and it shouldn't. Futher more, this guys multiple attempts would seem to meet the willful burden criteria. He'll pay for this one.

When I'm looking to purchase on my C&R, if there's any question, I check the book. If I can't find my answer there but I think it should qualify, I write ATF. If they say it's not, I fill out a 4473.

And if NY says you can't purchase a handgun with your FFL 03, whether it is C&R or not, then you should either accept that or move, not try to circumvent it.