Corrosive primer cleaning with Hoppes#9
- Thread starter George44
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PRD1
Member
Yes...
About 50 years ago. At the time, I trusted that Hoppe's worked as claimed - my 1911, shot with ancient MILSURP ammo and scrupulously cleaned with Hoppes, oiled and then put away for a couple of weeks, when checked again had a nice coat of brown fur in the bore. I cleaned it again (and everything fired with corrosive ammo since) with plain water, and never had any further problems with rust in the bore. It didn't work then, and doesn't work now because the only effective solvents for the corrosive salt residue (Potassium Chloride) are, or are based on, plain water. The standard U.S. (and presumably, foreign) military bore cleaners for corrosive ammo are water-based: Hoppe's has no water in it.
I had an extensive exchange of messages with Hoppe's a few years ago, pointing out that the claim on their current packaging is misleading at best, and flat wrong at worst.
They claimed that other components of their formula do dissolve the salt, but refused to say which ones. I checked on the components of their current formula, which must be listed per safety regulations, and found that water is not a component at all, and that none of the actual chemicals used are even one-tenth so effective a solvent of the salt as plain water.
Hoppe's #9 Plus (their blackpowder solvent) does contain some water, and probably would work fairly well, but not so well as plain water, nor so cheaply.
Clean after firing corrosive ammo with water, hot or cold, with or without soap or other additives, dry thoroughly and oil: that's all you need to do.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike
About 50 years ago. At the time, I trusted that Hoppe's worked as claimed - my 1911, shot with ancient MILSURP ammo and scrupulously cleaned with Hoppes, oiled and then put away for a couple of weeks, when checked again had a nice coat of brown fur in the bore. I cleaned it again (and everything fired with corrosive ammo since) with plain water, and never had any further problems with rust in the bore. It didn't work then, and doesn't work now because the only effective solvents for the corrosive salt residue (Potassium Chloride) are, or are based on, plain water. The standard U.S. (and presumably, foreign) military bore cleaners for corrosive ammo are water-based: Hoppe's has no water in it.
I had an extensive exchange of messages with Hoppe's a few years ago, pointing out that the claim on their current packaging is misleading at best, and flat wrong at worst.
They claimed that other components of their formula do dissolve the salt, but refused to say which ones. I checked on the components of their current formula, which must be listed per safety regulations, and found that water is not a component at all, and that none of the actual chemicals used are even one-tenth so effective a solvent of the salt as plain water.
Hoppe's #9 Plus (their blackpowder solvent) does contain some water, and probably would work fairly well, but not so well as plain water, nor so cheaply.
Clean after firing corrosive ammo with water, hot or cold, with or without soap or other additives, dry thoroughly and oil: that's all you need to do.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike
don p
Member
I must be lucky all I use is Hoppe's #9 after shooting corrosive primered ammo and no problems to date.:banghead:
PRD1
Member
don p:
It may be luck, but there are other factors which may be at work. The original study (in the U.S.) was done by Dr. Wilbert J. Huff, of the Bureau of Mines in 1918 and published as Technical Papers #188, Corrosion Under Oil Films, with Special Reference to After-corrosion in Firearms.
He demonstrated the culprit was, in fact, the potassium chlorate in the priming mixture which was causing the corrosion in firearms which had been properly cleaned in accordance with the then-standard methods, even when they were protected with a coating of oil. He showed that other cleaning methods and materials did not work, and why.
He also showed that the corrosion did not commence even in uncleaned arms until the relative humidity went above 50%, at which point the salt residue attracted moisture from the air to make a brine solution which caused the rusting.
He recommended the proper, water-based cleaning methods be instituted, and even went so far as to produce his own cleaning product - 'Huff's Chloroil', which was water-based and popular throughout the remaining years of the corrosive priming era.
Some users of non-water solvents believe they are not experiencing rusting because they don't notice severe pitting or obvious reddish rust in the bore, but fail to notice the progressive darkening of the bore, particularly at the corners of the grooves, until significant damage has been done. For now, I recommend you run a dry patch or two through your cleaned barrels at intervals, and check for red or brown stains, just to be safe.
If you are fortunate enough to live in an area where the relative humidity never goes over the critical 50%, you may never actually have much of a problem, but there aren't many such places. I live in Arizona, where the typical RH is below 20%, but it does go up much higher on occasion, so I clean with water and have never had a problem in arms cleaned that way.
Water is cheap and readily available - new barrels aren't.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike
It may be luck, but there are other factors which may be at work. The original study (in the U.S.) was done by Dr. Wilbert J. Huff, of the Bureau of Mines in 1918 and published as Technical Papers #188, Corrosion Under Oil Films, with Special Reference to After-corrosion in Firearms.
He demonstrated the culprit was, in fact, the potassium chlorate in the priming mixture which was causing the corrosion in firearms which had been properly cleaned in accordance with the then-standard methods, even when they were protected with a coating of oil. He showed that other cleaning methods and materials did not work, and why.
He also showed that the corrosion did not commence even in uncleaned arms until the relative humidity went above 50%, at which point the salt residue attracted moisture from the air to make a brine solution which caused the rusting.
He recommended the proper, water-based cleaning methods be instituted, and even went so far as to produce his own cleaning product - 'Huff's Chloroil', which was water-based and popular throughout the remaining years of the corrosive priming era.
Some users of non-water solvents believe they are not experiencing rusting because they don't notice severe pitting or obvious reddish rust in the bore, but fail to notice the progressive darkening of the bore, particularly at the corners of the grooves, until significant damage has been done. For now, I recommend you run a dry patch or two through your cleaned barrels at intervals, and check for red or brown stains, just to be safe.
If you are fortunate enough to live in an area where the relative humidity never goes over the critical 50%, you may never actually have much of a problem, but there aren't many such places. I live in Arizona, where the typical RH is below 20%, but it does go up much higher on occasion, so I clean with water and have never had a problem in arms cleaned that way.
Water is cheap and readily available - new barrels aren't.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike
NCsmitty
Member
After shooting corrosive ammo, a flush with hot water on the residue exposed parts, then a cleaning with Hoppe's, followed with an oily patch, will protect for a long time.
Too many shooters shortcut the proper procedure, and then whine when their firearms develop the rusties.
NCsmitty
Too many shooters shortcut the proper procedure, and then whine when their firearms develop the rusties.
NCsmitty
Cleaners using ammonia can help in one respect, since ammonia dissolves copper and cupro-nickel fouling. In normal firing with corrosive primers, the potassium chloride is distributed in the bore, then a layer of fouling from the bullet or bullet jacket is laid down over it. This goes on as long as firing continues. To get at the primer residue, it is necessary to remove the metal fouling, and an ammonia cleaner or a wire brush does that. Then plain water dissolves the potassium chloride and flushes it away.
One way to test a cleaner's effectiveness against potassium chloride is to use it on common table salt (sodium chloride); if it won't dissolve and flush plain salt, it won't do so with primer residue, either.
Jim
One way to test a cleaner's effectiveness against potassium chloride is to use it on common table salt (sodium chloride); if it won't dissolve and flush plain salt, it won't do so with primer residue, either.
Jim
I've used Hoppes #9 for years with no corrosion of any kind then one day .... Rust!
I leave the Hoppes in the bore then reapply and wipe out before use. But I'm getting rust now. Can I still use it after hot water treatment?
Hot water and dishwasher is marvellous stuff for cutting rust but it also promotes rust by removing any oils. Residual rust holds moisture so hot drying might be indicated.
I leave the Hoppes in the bore then reapply and wipe out before use. But I'm getting rust now. Can I still use it after hot water treatment?
Hot water and dishwasher is marvellous stuff for cutting rust but it also promotes rust by removing any oils. Residual rust holds moisture so hot drying might be indicated.
wally
Member
It works, but is a lot more expensive than water! I clean with water first and follow up with a little Hoppes and gun oil as I normally would for non-corrosive ammo.
ChileRelleno
Member
Water, water, water...
When I shoot corrosive in my AK or MN 91/30, I bring it home and break out the water hose with spray nozzle, I hose the entire thing down, inside & out.
A thorough drying, clean as normal with Hoppes and lastly a nice wet patch of oil rubbed on all bare metal surfaces and down the barrel.
When I shoot corrosive in my AK or MN 91/30, I bring it home and break out the water hose with spray nozzle, I hose the entire thing down, inside & out.
A thorough drying, clean as normal with Hoppes and lastly a nice wet patch of oil rubbed on all bare metal surfaces and down the barrel.
RCWFL
Member
I shoot corrosive surplus through my MN 91/30.
The first time I cleaned her out really well with Hoppes #9 and applied the proper coating of oil. No rust after a week. No rust after a month.
I take her out shooting again a few months later. I repeat the procedure. To my surprise a few days later I have little rust particles forming inside my gun. So I repeat the procedure again, with more spirit.
Again, a few days later I am seeing rust particles. Unsure of what to do I run to the store and grab some Breakfree CLP.
I liberally soak the barrel in CLP. I let it set over night. Cleaned it out, ran some more Hoppes #9 down it, and then dried her out. Ran a patch of CLP down the bore.
No sign of rust since and this has been quite a few months. In the future I'm going to try the hot water and CLP combo.
I don't really trust Hoppes #9 solely, anymore, to deactivate the corrosive salts.
The first time I cleaned her out really well with Hoppes #9 and applied the proper coating of oil. No rust after a week. No rust after a month.
I take her out shooting again a few months later. I repeat the procedure. To my surprise a few days later I have little rust particles forming inside my gun. So I repeat the procedure again, with more spirit.
Again, a few days later I am seeing rust particles. Unsure of what to do I run to the store and grab some Breakfree CLP.
I liberally soak the barrel in CLP. I let it set over night. Cleaned it out, ran some more Hoppes #9 down it, and then dried her out. Ran a patch of CLP down the bore.
No sign of rust since and this has been quite a few months. In the future I'm going to try the hot water and CLP combo.
I don't really trust Hoppes #9 solely, anymore, to deactivate the corrosive salts.
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