Giving up on MBC "SoftBall!" 230gr LRN

GLOOB · May 12, 2012

Yep. I'm trying to do it in one step.

This is the reason why I love the 200 gr IDPA bullets. I wish all cast autoloader bullets had a crimp groove! Luckily, my 45 ACP is my only handgun that needs any significant amount of taper crimping (i.e. flare removal) for reliability, and the 200 grain IDPA bullets fit the bill, there.

One thing you might try is putting a little bit of chamfer on your cases. I notice that when loading my 223 rounds, a little chamfer helps a lot, even on cases that haven't been trimmed. That might allow you to reduce your flare. You might also try separating out your headstamps and trying the thinner ones for your 230 grainers. Like R-P and S&B.

Unless there are any magic cures out there, I'm going to switch over to Zero FMJ

This is an excellent idea in theory. In practice, those bullets are hard to find!

popper · May 12, 2012

M die is still for jacketed. Use a different expander to flare. Get it just started the rotate 90 deg and seat the rest of the way. LLA is better than the crayon lube. Use 231, it works better with the high BHN CBs. If you have proper neck tension, the crimp is just to remove the flair. Load the rnd a couple times from the clip and check for COL change. If none, neck tension is good. Slug the bbl - if MBC isn't right, buy the correct size or cast your own.

Cascade1911 · May 13, 2012

Unless there are any magic cures out there, I'm going to switch over to Zero FMJ

Click to expand...

This is an excellent idea in theory. In practice, those bullets are hard to find!

Missouri bullets are getting the same way. Was just on their site and everything I want is three weeks wait time.

ArchAngelCD · May 13, 2012

Cascade1911 said:
Missouri bullets are getting the same way. Was just on their site and everything I want is three weeks wait time.

You can order Missouri Bullets from Powder Valley now and at a better price than the Missouri Bullets site. I personally don;t care where I get them from as long as I can keep shooting the bullets.

Cascade1911 · May 13, 2012

You can order Missouri Bullets from Powder Valley now and at a better price

A quick check of PV's site

MO .358 148 GR DEWC-BB PPC #2 BHN 10 (500) Out of Stock
MO .452 200 GR SWC IDP #1 BHN 18 .45ACP (500) Out of Stock
MO .452 230 GR RN SOFTBALL! BHN 18 .45ACP (500) Out of Stock

I guess not. (and watch the shipping)

Fatelvis · May 13, 2012

Is a "softball" load one using a bullet less than 230 grains? Forgive my ignorance please-

Sport45 · May 13, 2012

230gr FMJ has been called hardball for a long time. I think MBC calls theirs softball because it has about the same profile as hardball, but is cast lead.

Seedtick · May 13, 2012

Fatelvis said:
Is a "softball" load one using a bullet less than 230 grains? Forgive my ignorance please-

"SoftBall" is just the name MBC uses for their 230 grain LRN 18 BHN bullet.

Here it is ---> SoftBall! <---

Seedtick

jr_roosa · May 15, 2012

Update:

OK, copper chore boy on a bore brush is magical. Magical. The only thing it doesn't get is a little bit in the corner between the base of the groove and the side of the land, and a regular brush takes care of that without difficulty.

I shot some older loads, same specs, and had a different leading problem. Still only in the first inch of the barrel, but this time only from about 11:00 to 3:00. Weird. Now that I have a quick way to clean it out, I care a lot less.

I think that part of my problem is that usually at the end of a shooting session, I burn though a magazine of my carry ammo (JHPs) to keep rotating fresh ammo into the mix, and I bet that has been cleaning out the lead pretty well. With the batch I was complaining about, I happened to run though the carry ammo first, so the leading was left behind at the end of the session.

I am now fully prepared to try some more "Softball" to try to optimize the load to prevent leading. I don't want to download below around 830fps since I already have really good loads with 200gr and 185gr SWCs that don't lead much, are accurate, and feed just fine. I bet that if I do two-step seating and crimping after giving the case more bell with the M die that I will be in good shape.

Thanks for your help!

-J.

blarby · May 16, 2012

Copper over lead, great like sliced bread.

Lead over copper, that's a barrel popper.

murf · May 16, 2012

ace hardware has chorboy.

if the round doesn't go "clunk", the bullet ogive is bumping up against the throat's lead (narrowing from case diameter to barrel diameter). when the slide slams shut, the lead bullet is slammed up against the throat lead and is tearing off a small ring of lead from the bullet. when you fire, that ring of now loose lead is being blown into the barrel.

seating the bullet deeper to back off the ogive is my suggestion if that doesn't raise presssures too much. i'd seat more a little at a time and do the "clunk" test until you get the right sound. imop

murf

Rule3 · May 16, 2012

The MBC 230 gr "softball" is 18 BHN which never made sense to me as it's the same hardness as Magnum bullets?? Why would the alloy be the same for 700 to 800 fps as that for over 1200 fps??
I asked Brad about it and they sometimes run a batch with the 12 BHN alloy which to me makes more sense for target load 45 ACP. I bought several boxes of them a like them a lot. No leading.

Sometimes they have them in stock under specials

ljnowell · May 16, 2012

The MBC 230 gr "softball" is 18 BHN which never made sense to me as it's the same hardness as Magnum bullets?? Why would the alloy be the same for 700 to 800 fps as that for over 1200 fps??
I asked Brad about it and they sometimes run a batch with the 12 BHN alloy which to me makes more sense for target load 45 ACP. I bought several boxes of them a like them a lot. No leading.

Sometimes they have them in stock under specials
__________________

I would prefer to have them in a 12bhn also, but as long as you have a good barrel fit, they arent a problem at 18bhn. Brad has always been good about doing runs in a different hardness, though right now they are backed up and slammed. Got to be one of the most successful lead bullet makes out there, I'm glad to call him a friend.

Hammerdown77 · May 16, 2012

That's a good point about the hardness. I never understood why he only offered that bullet in the harder alloy. If anything, it should only be offered in 12 BHN. The only 18 BHN bullets I buy from MBC are the 300 grainers for the Casull, and maybe some 44 caliber bullets I know will only go in full 44 mag loads. Everything else, I try to get the "Cowboy action" version with 12 BHN. I even shoot the12 BHN 158 gr. 357 bullets in full power magnum loadings (using H110 and AA9) with no leading.

altitude_19 · May 18, 2012

You should seat and crimp in separate steps to avoid shaving lead.

Poppycock. I seat/crimp .453 LRN 230 gn boolits in one step. Proper flaring and not overcrimping will prevent any shaved lead. Splitting seating and crimping up is something done by those who don't care to properly calibrate the die that does both in one step.

ArchAngelCD · May 18, 2012

altitude_19 said:
Poppycock. I seat/crimp .453 LRN 230 gn boolits in one step. Proper flaring and not overcrimping will prevent any shaved lead. Splitting seating and crimping up is something done by those who don't care to properly calibrate the die that does both in one step.

To use your own words, that's poppycock. If someone likes to seat and crimp in a separate operation that doesn't mean they don't care to properly calibrate their dies. That statement is too broad, makes an assumption that you are better than others and a little bit insulting too. How can you make such a broad statement about other reloaders when it could possibly be only a personal preference? Seriously, not very nice and not very High Road either...

altitude_19 · May 18, 2012

How can you make such a broad statement about other reloaders when it could possibly be only a personal preference?

Easily. By allowing that it IS personal preference (and dismissing the idea that it is a functional necessity). Hence the phrasing "don't care to."

If someone likes to seat and crimp in a separate operation that doesn't mean they don't care to properly calibrate their dies.

That is precisely what it means. I didn't say they were incapable, just that they don't care to do it that way.

ArchAngelCD · May 18, 2012

Fair enough, I didn't read it that way originally...

EMC45 · May 18, 2012

What kind of lube do MBC bullets have? Is it that rock hard blue or red lube? That may be your first problem. I cast my bullets and have a SAECO tester. My WW (Wheel Weight) lead bullets come out right at Lyman #2 on the SAECO hardness tester. I also use a soft lube and do a fine "wash tumble" in Lee Liquid Alox. I have been told that that is an uneccessary step. It works so I don't worry what others say. I get nearly zero leading in everything from .32 S&W-L up the HOT .44 Mag loads, and everything in between. The bore on you pistol is .451 and the bullets are .452? That sounds about right. I would load at 4.5gr Bullseye and see how you look then. That has been THE load for all 3 of my .45s (Springfield Mil Spec, Glock G36, and my Marlin Camp Carbine) I am running the 230gr. Lee TC and RN bullets with Moly type lube I concocted from Moly grease and beeswax. I am also shooting them through, conventional rifling, Micro Groove rifling, and Glock Polgonal rifling. Those last 2 are internet no-nos, but I do it and they shoot just fine!

Hammerdown77 · May 18, 2012

From MBC's FAQ section on their website:

"We use Thompson's Blue Angel Bullet Lube"

1KPerDay · May 29, 2012

on the subject , I'm currently working on my first reloads with MBC softball in .45, and I am having to seat the bullets quite short to pass the plunk test. 1.2375 which is about to the top of the side flats. Is this typical? Crimp is .472".

Striker Fired · May 29, 2012

Seat them to whatever will fit your gun.A listed oal isn't a "have to or else" thing,it's just what they used and fit in their gun. Just remember that shorter oals effect pressures so adjust charge accordingly.
As to this original issue, I'd say that lopsided seating of the bullet and the ring of lead is the biggest leading issue, but I would also wonder if the bullets aren't being crimped too much or are undersize for what your barrel needs. Too small of bullets has been my #1 cause of leading. I've used up too 21bhn bullets in my .45(to stop feedramp nose damage) and as long as my bullets are big enough, leading stays away.
Another thing I have done to all my barrel is hand polishing them to get rid of any roughness that may "grind" lead off the bullets. Some barrel are rerally bad and others are pretty smooth as is but still do better with a small amount of polishing.

LiveLife · May 29, 2012

1KPerDay said:
MBC softball in .45, and I am having to seat the bullets quite short to pass the plunk test. 1.2375 which is about to the top of the side flats. Is this typical? Crimp is .472".

That seems a bit short. Even for my Sig 1911 barrel that has very quick start of rifling (almost no leade), 1.250" OAL will just pass the barrel drop test using .471"-.472" taper crimp. For my M&P45 and PT145 with longer leade, 1.260" OAL will work fine.

It is similar for Berry's 185 gr RN. For M&P45 and other 1911 barrels, 1.260" will work fine but 1.255" is the maximum OAL I could use before they start hitting the rifling (Factory Remington 230 gr FMJ for reference).

1KPerDay · May 29, 2012

Thanks. I ran a few at 1.260 and they cycled and fired fine, and eject easily by hand. They just don't drop out if pressed forward into the chamber. It takes a light fingernail pry to get them back out.

Scimmia · May 29, 2012

Some barrels have leads that are just too tight. A buddy of mine has a custom 1911 that has to have the flat on lead semi-wadcutters seated flush with the casemouth. If they're sticking out at all, they hit the lands and you have to push the slide forward slightly to get it into battery. The "SoftBall!" bullets have a similar flat area, although small.

Giving up on MBC "SoftBall!" 230gr LRN

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