I took a brand new Savage Axis 308 to the range this weekend and started with Federal Premium Nosler Partition rounds. I believe 180gr or so. They were expensive and to my disappointment I couldn't get it to hit consistently within the black i.e. 6" groups at 100 yards. I was totally irritated once the box ran out. So I switched with to Hornady 150gr SST Superformance. Same issue but a little bit better so I assumed I had to do be screwing up it myself. Was also cleaning the barrel consistently after every few rounds and taking enough time to keep the barrel cool or quite tolerable to touch. So instead using the light and rested rifle position I started holding it as hard as could without shaking the barrel and was able to reliably put most within a 2" group? It just doesn't seem to make that much sense, it's like the rifle needs to be held tight or something. Can't go easy otherwise it will shoot all over the place. Only thing is I'm not one of a very steady nerve when I hold it tight it's harder for me to hold in the right place. Anyone else experience the same issue? Any ideas? I'm open as those boxes of ammo aren't cheap. And I'm using it for hunting this year BTW.
Savage Axis needs a strong hold
- Thread starter heycatman
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NeuseRvrRat
Member
don't clean the bore so much. my savage takes a good 15 rds to settle in and as soon as i clean the bore the groups open back up.
riflefan
Member
Have a Savage Axis in 270 and 223. When new they ha a very small amount of play in the bedding area and the fore end is flexible enough to bend under moderate pressure, This caused some wild groups. My solution was to use JB-weld and aluminum bars to strengthen the fore end and to bed the action in JB-weld to take out the "wiggle". It was really easy and worked great. The 270 now shoots 1" groups all day long with reloads. The 223 shoots 1" with silverbear russian ammo. It all cost about $15 for 2 rifles and an hour each. I just found some online instructions and read over them to make sure I understood the basic principles of bedding and had at it. The use of aluminum as my material of choice for the fore end kept it light and I don't notice any practical weight difference. If you want more specifics i will post more.
I've found that most lighter weight rifles don't shoot well off the bench if they are just lying on the bags. I do better with my left hand between the bag and rifle's forend and a bit more pressure into my shoulder with the right hand.
Heavier guns just sit on the bags and allow you to pull the trigger
Heavier guns just sit on the bags and allow you to pull the trigger
One_Jackal
member
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Ever hear of using a sling to improve accuracy? All the sling does is pull the gun closer to your body. You Savage is telling you buy me a sling and learn to use it.
I like your tagline very fitting of your post.
Yes, also checked the scope mount just in case it was loose. It appears I was holding it too loose however, I've done so with other rifles and had good results, including other 308s. Although they are considerably heavier than the Savage Axis is.
I have access to a lot of machining tools. Could probably screw an aluminum bracer to the bottom of the foregrip? As far as JB weld I have some of that too although that's a little more semi permanent than screws. I'd like to see a photo before I just go for it. So you think the foregrip could be pushing against the barrel differently each time?
Still Shooting
Member
Savage Black Tupperware Stocks
I have a Savage 11 cal. 7mmWMS that I bought NIB about 18 months ago. It wouldn't group worth spit no matter how or what I loaded for it, and there wasn't an appreciable difference between factory stuff and my own. Groups were running 4-5" at 100 yds. And the stock didn't fit me well for the magnum loads.
I tried light loads, heavy loads, different powders, etc., but the best I could get out of the gun after all of the experiments was 2-3" groups. I fitted it with a Bell & Carlson Tactical A2 stock (full aluminum bed), without much change. I was cleaning the bore after every 5 rounds at first, then every 10, and shooting fouling shots as well.
Suddenly, at 80rds. through the rifle, it just settled down. I am now able to shoot consistently at 1/2moa (1/2" groups of 5 at 100 yds.). At 66 years old with not-so-good vision, and considering that usually 3 out of 5 rds. make one ragged hole, I suspect the rifle is capable of better accuracy than I am - maybe even 1/4moa?
I am certain that the aluminum bedded stock is a contributor, but I believe that the barrel just needed about 80 rds. and the right combination of load (140gr. Nosler Bal. Tips driven by 63.0gr. of IMR 4350 - Fed.#215 primers) to settle down and prove it's a Savage barrel.
I have a Savage 11 cal. 7mmWMS that I bought NIB about 18 months ago. It wouldn't group worth spit no matter how or what I loaded for it, and there wasn't an appreciable difference between factory stuff and my own. Groups were running 4-5" at 100 yds. And the stock didn't fit me well for the magnum loads.
I tried light loads, heavy loads, different powders, etc., but the best I could get out of the gun after all of the experiments was 2-3" groups. I fitted it with a Bell & Carlson Tactical A2 stock (full aluminum bed), without much change. I was cleaning the bore after every 5 rounds at first, then every 10, and shooting fouling shots as well.
Suddenly, at 80rds. through the rifle, it just settled down. I am now able to shoot consistently at 1/2moa (1/2" groups of 5 at 100 yds.). At 66 years old with not-so-good vision, and considering that usually 3 out of 5 rds. make one ragged hole, I suspect the rifle is capable of better accuracy than I am - maybe even 1/4moa?
I am certain that the aluminum bedded stock is a contributor, but I believe that the barrel just needed about 80 rds. and the right combination of load (140gr. Nosler Bal. Tips driven by 63.0gr. of IMR 4350 - Fed.#215 primers) to settle down and prove it's a Savage barrel.
Yeah, I know but it's still worth getting some opinions. After all what are forums good for if not to see what others have done? Not to mention there goes my plan of a half slumber shot from my tree stand safety bar. Also, I've shot plenty that will take a nice soft handle and have excellent accuracy. After all I was hanging on to it. It's not like I just set it there and let it dangle.
Abel
Member
Try some good ol' cheap remington core-lokt 150gr.
arizona98tj
Member
That would be about the worst thing you could do while trying to shoot for tight groups.
Centurian22
Member
I have an axis Xp .308 and have found a similar pattern of having to hold tight. Also as mentioned a sling also can help though it will move the fore-end around and can alter points of contact and pressure with the barrel. I did not find heavy bullets to work well and have settled with Federal blue box power shok 150gr soft points. For accuracy nothing has beaten Federal Gold Medal Match SMK 168gr HPBT. Have you lightened or replaced the trigger?
rbernie
Contributing Member
I have found that front-light rifles with rounded forearms indeed do seem to 'bounce' off bag rests if my shooting form isn't 'just so', with resultant wild looking groups. You can mitigate that somewhat with weight on the front, and certainly by using better shooting form (e.g. 'pin' the butt of the gun into your shoulder pocket, provide an absolutely rearward trigger pull with no side motion component, and so forth). I actually tend towards offhand shooting (since that's how I hunt), so my bench form isn't exactly the best and sometimes I really have to slow down and remember how to do it properly. 
Often, modern 'inexpensive' polymer stocks are so flimsy that pushing the rifle forward on the bag so that the bag sits directly under the receiver ring is needed to get a decent group off a bench. If the rifle rests too much on the forearm, the forearm will flex under recoil and make unpredicatable contact with the barrel - killing your group size dramatically.
Often, modern 'inexpensive' polymer stocks are so flimsy that pushing the rifle forward on the bag so that the bag sits directly under the receiver ring is needed to get a decent group off a bench. If the rifle rests too much on the forearm, the forearm will flex under recoil and make unpredicatable contact with the barrel - killing your group size dramatically.
Tempest 455
Member
Ditto on flimsy stock. Do a search on filling the stock on the Axis. It makes a HUGE difference.
Nevmavrick
Member
This Axis that we've come up with will be the first 'beginner's model, glass-stocked hunter that I'll have spent any time with. It seems to have all the makin's of a pretty nice huntin'/carryin' gun.
Recoil happens after the bullet has left the barrel, but the tension on the forestock in contact with the front bag, MAY be affected by it's position, and the tension against your shoulder. Very light rifles usually need a bit of pressure because they react more during a bullet's flight inside the barrel.
If the barrel touches the stock at an odd place, it'll blow accuracy out the window, and make the "hold" a more important factor.
I like the "JB fix", as, with care, it will make the rifle more consistant.
We'll see.
Have fun,
Gene
Recoil happens after the bullet has left the barrel, but the tension on the forestock in contact with the front bag, MAY be affected by it's position, and the tension against your shoulder. Very light rifles usually need a bit of pressure because they react more during a bullet's flight inside the barrel.
If the barrel touches the stock at an odd place, it'll blow accuracy out the window, and make the "hold" a more important factor.
I like the "JB fix", as, with care, it will make the rifle more consistant.
We'll see.
Have fun,
Gene
riflefan
Member
MY JB fix worked well for me. The inside of the forearm is basically hollow. I cut some pieces of aluminum stock to fit the length of each section and used the JB as glue basically. While the JB was setting I put the action and barrel back in stock and used toothpicks to set the stock to barrel gap. After the JB had set stock was plenty solid and I could really pull on sling without warping fore-end into barrel. I also used JB to bed the action. All in all very inexpensive and improvement in consistency was impressive. I know some of you may think this is pretty redneck, and it probably is, but on a budget it worked. Happy hunting to all.
kcshooter
Member
Use AcraGlas to bed the action and fill the stock.
Results will be much better.
Results will be much better.
The rifle starts recoiling the INSTANT the bullet starts to move down the barrel. This is very obvious in high-speed video filming.
What is not so obvious is if you have a LIGHT HOLD on a rifle, that barrel may not be pointed where you had it originally, by the time that round comes out.
Just something to think about.
I also squeeze my 300 Win Mag to the max - without shaking - and I shoot much better doing so; not a light rifle by any stretch. Also makes recoil more manageable because the rifle doesn't "JUMP" to your shoulder. (Skin/fat/muscle all allow it to accelerate until they are compressed. If they are compressed to START with, the rifle don't accelerate backwards - YOU move as a whole.)
What is not so obvious is if you have a LIGHT HOLD on a rifle, that barrel may not be pointed where you had it originally, by the time that round comes out.
Just something to think about.
I also squeeze my 300 Win Mag to the max - without shaking - and I shoot much better doing so; not a light rifle by any stretch. Also makes recoil more manageable because the rifle doesn't "JUMP" to your shoulder. (Skin/fat/muscle all allow it to accelerate until they are compressed. If they are compressed to START with, the rifle don't accelerate backwards - YOU move as a whole.)
Ok now I know what you where saying. I took it apart and saw a bunch of open space. I have some aluminum I'm gonna try it although it will probably take me a bit as I'm busy. Thanks for the advice and yeah it's JB Weld but it's also only a $250 gun. Thank you!
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