I purchased a Nirinco Mak 90 in 1995 for $185.00. I gave about $85.00 to much. It would only group about 5-6 inch at 75 yards and had a 10 lb trigger pull with an inch of creep. Now I hear they go 500-700. You would have to be an idiot to pay that much for one. I see some I think WASr for $350 - 400. That's way overpriced for what they are. AR's are too affordable to pay that much for crap.
At what point are "cheap" AK's no longer cheap to you?
- Thread starter checkmyswag
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At the point I can buy a superior gun for the same money. I have had AKs for years. I really like them. However, I also came to the conclusion awhile ago that spending too much money trying to update them with features other rifles already have is a fools errand. I'll add modern muzzle devises, an aimpoint and other things like that. However, if I want the features of another gun it is typically easier and lest costly just to get that gun.
Gabe Suarez seems to have FINALLY figured this out after some time trying pushing his $1500+ AKs with some but not all the features of a $1000 AR. He has finally admitted it was a losing proposition and that its better to just go with another platform
I chuck the the saiga bolt hold opens. What is desirable that IMHO there is not a good solution for is a last round bolt hold open. That is not a deal breaker. Look at how ubiquitous the MP5 is and it lacks a LRBHO.
In sum, much more than $400 or $500 before optics, and perhaps a few other upgrades, is more than I would pay for an AK. Buy the time you get to $800 there are just better guns (and I say that as someone with nearly a dozen AK pattern guns). The extra price is rarely getting much more performance. I'd rather have a $400 AK with a $400 aimpoint than some of the $800+ dollar guns I see for sale. Sadly, many of the real good deals are passed. Unconverted saigas are selling for $400. I bought my first one not too long ago for $270 OTD. Draco's and a tax stamp were a great way into a sweet little SBR AK when prices were $350 (+200 for stamp and $60 for a stock) but now the prices for the pistols near the finished product before.
Right now the best deal in AKs is probably the AMD 65 for just over $400. Otherwise I would skip the AK and let prices settle. I really wanted the Sig 556R to be a great rifle. Sadly sig USA screwed it up badly. I'm watching to see if they get the issues resolved. A proper sig 556R would be a much better buy than an $800-1000 AK.
Gabe Suarez seems to have FINALLY figured this out after some time trying pushing his $1500+ AKs with some but not all the features of a $1000 AR. He has finally admitted it was a losing proposition and that its better to just go with another platform
I chuck the the saiga bolt hold opens. What is desirable that IMHO there is not a good solution for is a last round bolt hold open. That is not a deal breaker. Look at how ubiquitous the MP5 is and it lacks a LRBHO.
In sum, much more than $400 or $500 before optics, and perhaps a few other upgrades, is more than I would pay for an AK. Buy the time you get to $800 there are just better guns (and I say that as someone with nearly a dozen AK pattern guns). The extra price is rarely getting much more performance. I'd rather have a $400 AK with a $400 aimpoint than some of the $800+ dollar guns I see for sale. Sadly, many of the real good deals are passed. Unconverted saigas are selling for $400. I bought my first one not too long ago for $270 OTD. Draco's and a tax stamp were a great way into a sweet little SBR AK when prices were $350 (+200 for stamp and $60 for a stock) but now the prices for the pistols near the finished product before.
Right now the best deal in AKs is probably the AMD 65 for just over $400. Otherwise I would skip the AK and let prices settle. I really wanted the Sig 556R to be a great rifle. Sadly sig USA screwed it up badly. I'm watching to see if they get the issues resolved. A proper sig 556R would be a much better buy than an $800-1000 AK.
JFtheGR8
Member
Girodin said:
Honestly, I would have left it out if I wouldn't have gotten the milled hammer for it. It was a PITA to install. It was either put it back in or install a washer as a spacer to get rid of the hammer side to side play.
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kingcheese
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Seeing as i kinda started this ar ak debate, i mean that i chose to BUILD an ar over buying an ak, a local smith in my area will get you a good ar for around 850
meanmrmustard
Member
+1,000,000. But, some folks is afraid of the ole elbow grease needed for the conversion. Wimps.
fatcat4620
Member
Its ok, we all know now going ar vs ak is against the laws of physics
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Reloadron
Contributing Member
I fall into that group also. We were buying stamped Norinco stamped receivers for $129 and milled for $139 back in 95 and selling them for $179 and $189 respectively. Far as I am concerned that is what they were worth then and they aren't worth much more than that now, to me anyway. However, since any given gun on any given day is worth what someone is willing to pay the AK fan club will continue to drive prices up.
Totally discounting AR platforms for any comparison purposes I simply don't see what makes many of these AK rifles worth what they are going for much beyond demand. Back when they initially poured into the country between the SKS and the AK rifles the SKS was a better gun for the money. The AK variations were built new for export to the US simply because there was a market for them. Of the thousand or so we sold the only rifle I kept was a chi-com SKS and our cost on them was about $59 in lots of 10 at the time. At least the first SKS rifles were actual milsurp before they were new manufactured for export for the US market.
I guess I just am not in the AK fan club as there is no way I can see them worth today's prices to me anyway.
Just My Take
Ron
meanmrmustard
Member
Because, I myself, prefer AKs to ARs. I want the rifle I can count on, not the one that is popular. Now, sadly, things have changed. Cheap ARs are in the range of overpriced AKs. Bummer.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Understood and why I did not even begin to get into an AK / AR platform affair. The AK rifles are reliable, I simply stated that for me (and just me) they were not worth the money or cost they have been driven to. Now let another assault weapon ban aroma get out and again, just like before, they will double or more in price. Anyway, I am not going to play the AR / AK game or make comparisons.
Ron
In 1995 I purchased a Norinco Mak 90 for $185.00. In my opinion that was about $85.00 too much. It was reliable yes , but was the most inaccurate gun I ever owned. It had a 10 lb trigger pull and about 3/4 inch of creep. I'll probably never own another AK. If I feel the need to shoot 7.62 I will find me a mini 30, or an AR 7.62 upper. They are about the same price and built here.
I find thes threads funny.
I think people get patriotic with their guns and fail to see the big picture.
An AR may be a more accurate platform, but it's hard to say an AK is less reliable. It's not as accurate because they were designed to be reliable under any condition.
Then people will say you can get an at for a little more than an AK, but then you go to the AR threads and are told you can't get a good AR unless you start with a $1100 Colt.
I think people get patriotic with their guns and fail to see the big picture.
An AR may be a more accurate platform, but it's hard to say an AK is less reliable. It's not as accurate because they were designed to be reliable under any condition.
Then people will say you can get an at for a little more than an AK, but then you go to the AR threads and are told you can't get a good AR unless you start with a $1100 Colt.
It is without a doubt these AKs look cheap and made cheap. Its just the way they are. Because of their popularity and demand then like all things they re getting there.
WHile theres so many ARs out there, not all are made to quality specs. Just get the one you like and your pricerange and go from there. Its futile argueing this and that, we all know everyone who wants to sell an AK or AR wants the big dollar sign. How about we concentrate on buying more ammo so one can shoot and enjoy more?
WHile theres so many ARs out there, not all are made to quality specs. Just get the one you like and your pricerange and go from there. Its futile argueing this and that, we all know everyone who wants to sell an AK or AR wants the big dollar sign. How about we concentrate on buying more ammo so one can shoot and enjoy more?
ThePenguinKnight
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While thoroughly opposed to communism in general, I have a soft spot for weapons of communist design. I have about $575 into my Saiga conversion, which I thoroughly enjoy and find to be quite a bit more accurate than my basic short-range deer gun / absolute last ditch homestead weapon needs. I've never much liked the price or standard caliber of the average AR rifle, but I have respect for the platform. If those Del Ton kits went on sale, I might even be tempted to finally get into that game.
Now that I have my AK, I would be hard pressed to pay more than 400-500 for another, and certainly not a WASR. A Saiga has the quality to be worth about that much, but I would not spend much more, and certainly wouldn't pay that much for the other AK variants.
Now that I have my AK, I would be hard pressed to pay more than 400-500 for another, and certainly not a WASR. A Saiga has the quality to be worth about that much, but I would not spend much more, and certainly wouldn't pay that much for the other AK variants.
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minutemen1776
Member
I don't get all the "brand loyalty" either. Nor do I understand all the opinions based on stereotypes. I have both an AR and an AK. I like both, though they are different in many ways. The AR has always been accurate and completely reliable. The AK has also always been accurate and completely reliable. I slightly prefer the ergonomics of the AR, but I'd take either one if the chips were down. So, why can it not be acknowledged that both are very good platforms?
jg sales finally had another bunch of cugir wasr1063, i was waiting for for a while for this. ordered one about 2 weeks ago, then checked their site yesterday and nada/zero.....nothin all sold out. dont know what it is, but the converted saigas been on their site for a while now. chose the 1063 over the converted/saiga...once again. id rather pay $489 for a cugir ak variant over a $549(on sale converted saiga at jgsales)
One_Jackal
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I don't understand how the Saiga's have went up so fast. Last year the Russian Saiga was $250 for a .223. Less than five years ago I bought a Saiga .308 for $250. I sold the .308 a few weeks ago for $800. The new owner is tickled to death with it. I can buy a cheapo Browning for $950. That Saiga was a sweet shooting gun but it's not even in the same ballpark as a browning.
wojownik
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Personally, I'd be cautious about either, if they were CAI builds. That $549 Saiga conversion is also a CAI build - I've had too many bad experiences with their "built" products (though most of my milsurp straight imports seem to have a CAI import mark, and they are good for that).
The Saiga I picked up from K-var a few years ago ($525, as noted earlier) is a extremely well put together little rifle, and surprisingly accurate for an AK. My ROMAKS from over a decade 1/2 ago are a little less so, but rock solid. I went through 2 WASRs, and gave up (don't get me started on CETMEs and C93s).
Then picked I up a Romy G build by Citizens Armory in MO (on a NoDak receiver) - very pleased with it overall, though I felt like I overpaid shortly thereafter (it was in the frenzy of the last election), but still well under todays AK pricing.
Anyways, if you look at the Arsenal SGL pricing, they have fluctuated wildy - running up in the $800s before the last election, then plummeting to the $500s after the election, then back up, then back down briefly, then up again (way up now). Perhaps after the election they will drop again? I'd take that risk over dropping 5 bills on a Century build right now, but there may not be many other options right now under the $600 mark for an AK variant if you really need/want one.
everyone knows by now about cai builds. but cai did good by importing them built at the cugir factory and all they do is get them to be compliant to sell them. this is my 5th cugir built type variant and not even worried when i orderd the 1063. but as far as prices for a ak variant...the TGI amd65 is the winner at least for me, heck at $409 for a hungarian original receiver(FEG) and original chromlined barrel, id rather buy 2 of these than a $800+arsenal
JustinJ
Member
For a long time AK's were artificially cheap thanks to the collapse of the soviet union. As the surplus guns dry up it will raise the cost cost of AK's across the board. Romanian surplus parts are suddenly harder to find and more expensive. Arsenal AK's, generally accepted as superior with a justifiable higher price, will go up as well since they are viewed higher value.
The big driver though is of course the election. The downside is that prices will probably never fall back to pre-paranoia levels.
The big driver though is of course the election. The downside is that prices will probably never fall back to pre-paranoia levels.
meanmrmustard
Member
The election isnt going to do anything but raise prices higher. Neither candidate is a champion for gun owners, so we are in trouble either way.
I personally think I found a sweet spot with my Waffen Werks for right at $700 for Atlantic. It gives you a similar level of quality as an Arsenal, with a better finish and all for around $200 less. It's also well worth spending the extra money over the over-priced WASR's.
I may one day go for another AK, and it will likely be an Arsenal in 7.62x39. Unfortunately Waffen Werks isn't building any 7.62 kits, and many of the 7.62 offerings seem questionable at best. I'd rather spend a little more knowing I'll get a quality rifle than take a gamble on one of the lower priced options.
I may one day go for another AK, and it will likely be an Arsenal in 7.62x39. Unfortunately Waffen Werks isn't building any 7.62 kits, and many of the 7.62 offerings seem questionable at best. I'd rather spend a little more knowing I'll get a quality rifle than take a gamble on one of the lower priced options.
Caliper_Mi
Member
No problem with the mount itself. Show me one that puts the optics at the same plane as the iron sights though. Every one I have seen puts the optic way up in the sky where I'll have no cheek weld. Being as I have a long neck good head placement on the stock generally puts side mount optics where they'd smack me in the forehead.
At what additional cost?
I know Saigas are the place to go to get a new AK with good quality. But, I've not seen Saigas below $500, and that's with the "sporter" stock that I'd have to convert to pistol grip.
My biggest gripe is that I really wish someone would market a free float hand guard for the AK. I'm thinking some sort of steel lower hand guard that would share the front trunion rivets (replace them with longer rivets). I really hate the idea of paying that much for a rifle, then having to deal with my sling pulling my POI off in different positions.
mr.trooper
Member
I like my Polish Vector just fine. I think it spoiled me - for some reason plywood stocks, dremeled out magazine wells, canted sight towers, and loose rivets just don't excite me anymore.
wojownik
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This.
But, this changes the original discussion from "cheap" AKs. I'm starting to agree with those that say the best "deal" right now in an AK is the AMD, though that variant is not my cup of tea.
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