Heinlein got it wrong

lee n. field · Mar 8, 2004

I just noticed something interesting.

Robert Heinlein's early novel _Beyond This Horizon_ is where we get the phrase "an armed society is a polite society." In the society in this book, adult males are habitually armed and dueling is accepted. Darwinian filtering is considered good for the species.

Now, check out this scene, very early in the book:

But, now that his attention was directed to the matter, he saw at once that Hamilton was armed with something novel . . . and deucedly odd and uncouth. 'What is it?' he asked.

'Ah!' Hamilton drew the sidearm clear and handed it to his host. 'Whoops! Wait a moment. You don't know how to handle it -- you'll blow your head off.' He pressed a stud on the side of the grip, and let a long flat container slide out into his palm. 'I've pulled it's teeth. Ever see anything like it?'

Monroe-Alpha examined the machine. 'Why, yes, I belive so. It's a museum piece, isn't it? An explosive-type hand weapon?'

'Right and wrong. It's mill new, but it's a facsimile of one in the Smithsonian Institution collection. It's called a point forty-five Colt automatic pistol.'

Looks to me like Hamilton Felix has pulled the magazine, failed to clear the chamber, and handed his friend a loaded weapon.

clubsoda22 · Mar 8, 2004

let's just assume he did.

Read between the lines.

Bob R · Mar 8, 2004

Obviously the people that Heinlien wrote about were proponents of Israeli type carry.

bob

Triad · Mar 8, 2004

This book was written when the US military was the largest group of 1911 users in the world, right? Wasn't chamber empty carry SOP for the military back then? If so, it seems to me he didn't get it wrong, his writing just reflects what was common for the time.

Lone_Gunman · Mar 8, 2004

If the chamber was empty, then the gun didnt become any more safe by removing the magazine.

mgjohn · Mar 8, 2004

Also could have had a mag safety.

Lone_Gunman · Mar 8, 2004

I wasn't aware Colt ever put mag safeties on 1911s.

9x19 · Mar 9, 2004

9x19 · Mar 9, 2004

If the chamber was empty, then the gun didnt become any more safe by removing the magazine.

I dunno.... I've found most people can't chamber a round when there isn't a magazine in the weapon... no matter how many times they cycle the slide...

c_yeager · Mar 9, 2004

Im pretty sure that Hamilton would know if he carried his own weapon chambered or not.

grendelbane · Mar 9, 2004

Heinlein was amazing! He actually predicted the development of the 1911 clone industry.

Some of the old school science fiction writers liked modern space ships but old weapons. Heinlein's contemporary, doc smith was also one who had his characters use 1911s and .357 magnums. Today, David Weber continues the tradition with the Honor Harrington novels.

rich2u · Mar 9, 2004

I do so love David Webber & his perfectly lethat creation Honor Harrington

George Hill · Mar 9, 2004

grendelbane - Good catch.

Treylis · Mar 9, 2004

Heinlein was amazing! He actually predicted the development of the 1911 clone industry.

Haha, nice.

HunterGatherer · Mar 9, 2004

Heinlein got it wrong

[fingers in ears]LaLaLaLaLaLaLa... I can't hear you! LaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLa[/fingers in ears]

Headless Thompson Gunner · Mar 9, 2004

Way to go fellas, you've just added a few more titles to the list of books I hafta read. It was already a long list, and thanks to you it's still growing.

cordex · Mar 9, 2004

I noticed that when I read it too but I couldn't bring myself to actually say "Heinlein got it wrong".

Hitmen using suppressed revolvers, flipping safeties off of Glocks and revolvers - that bothers me. Thankfully, Heinlein's gun errors were minor and few.

grendelbane · Mar 9, 2004

Let me think. I do believe John Carter carried a Gov't model and a Garand. His father-in-law had a .38 revolver of some kind, (poured his own hollow-points). This is all from an imperfect memory.

Glory Road provided the hero with a choice between a Thompson SMG and a Garand. Neither was much use, as he was headed for territory where firearms did not work.

H. Beam Piper had some characters using 10mm pistols 2 decades before the 10mm auto was even developed.

There are other science fiction authors who have used contemporary arms in their stories. There is one who does it on a regular basis, and I admit I have forgotten his name. One of his characters used a S&W .41 magnum and a 9mm Browning Hi-Power. Another used a Grizzly .45 Winmag.

First one to come up with the name of this writer gets bragging rights for the rest of theweek.

ACP230 · Mar 9, 2004

The book was "The Probability Broach."
The author was (drum roll please!) L. Neil Smith.

Treylis · Mar 9, 2004

Hitmen using suppressed revolvers, flipping safeties off of Glocks and revolvers - that bothers me.

It would be really cool if I read something that had some guy use a suppressed Nagant. Then I'd know the author was either a fellow gun enthusiast or had done their homework.

Safeties on guns that have none in books and movies really irks me, though. I just finished a book that was packed full of "silenced revolvers", "slapping a fresh clip into his pistol", "flipping the safety catch on his revolver", plus other bogus stuff. Gah.

Tom Bri · Mar 9, 2004

Lee N. Field, you reading that thing AGAIN?!!?

I re-read it a few years ago, was surprised by all the stuff I had missed as a kid.

grendelbane · Mar 9, 2004

Very good, that didn't take long. I had methane on the brain, and could not think of his name.

Most of my favorite science fiction authors have passed away. It seems it is just not as popular as it once was. That is a shame.

I remember novels set on the planet Haven, where everything from AK-47s to muzzle loaders were used. Those were some good stories, even if they did recycle the Oedipus story. Truly, there is nothing new under the Sun.

Anyway, ACP230 gets bragging rights for the rest of the week. I have to work tomorrow, so I am going to bed. Good shooting, and good reading,to everyone.

ChickenHawk · Mar 9, 2004

Sorta OT comment to this thread, but

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress

was his best book. One of my favorite sci-fi.

Cheers,
ChickenHawk

techmike · Mar 10, 2004

The book was "The Probability Broach."
The author was (drum roll please!) L. Neil Smith.

ALSO a great book!

SMLE · Mar 10, 2004

H. Beam Piper had some characters using 10mm pistols 2 decades before the 10mm auto was even developed.

Piper usually just converted common calibers to their metric equivilants. Like Pappy Jack's 12.7mm Nitro Express. I don't recall now if he specifically referred to a 10mm Auto, or not. Several characters carried revolvers.

I did spot a couple of errors in Eric Flint's "1632" series. In one instance, he has a character carrying a S&W M-28, but describes it as having fixed sights. And another character has a S&W 36 in .357 Magnum.

Heinlein got it wrong

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